A Few Thoughts on Necros

[Juriel]

Doubles on Golems: Only worth it as 3rd skill and later. Having a blodge SF roadblock early on is great, but most of the time the team would benefit more from him just being a generic Block/Guard grunt (because a slow-to-advance player trying to get from 16 to 31 SPP is going to take a long time).

Doubles on Wights: Conversely, Dodge, I think, is a good choice here at almost any point, because Wights get stuck in the scrums almost as much as the Golems, only they're much more fragile. This also may direct some of opponent Tackle away from the Ghouls and Wolves. Now, another discussion is whether you should consider making a Wight a killer (in case your Wolves aren't rolling any doubles), which would benefit from Jump Up (at the cost of robbing the team of Guard assists) - I don't feel qualified to comment on that, as I don't like losing tackle zones.

Note: Neither Golems or Wights need any doubles to be useful, and it's definitely not the wrong choice to ignore a double in favor of a regular skill. Regular rolls on levels are just fine on them, they're the support pillars of the team. A Block/Guard/Stand Firm/Tackle/MB/Grab player can make the rest of the team really shine.

Doubles on Ghouls/Zombies: Hello, Guard. Nothing else is really an option. Putting Leader on them is not worth the risk, just to save 40k in TV, since Ghouls die all the time, and Zombies are all going on the LOS.

[TheDoc]

My thoughts on the Necros:

Well I started with both Wolves, Golums, Wights and 2 RRs. My team "Universal Horrors" played TT for 14 games and I found it a challenge. No ball handling skills and the need to keep to wolves alive made it difficult, especially against developed teams or Ag4.

Offensive set ups and defensive set ups were very similar. I always found that packing the centre of the pitch worked well with the Golums on the hash marks of the centre section one/two squares back. This gave me the opportunity to engage with them where I wanted. Putting them on the LOS tied them up too much and I like them to annoy opponents on defence and add bulk to my screen so a wolf could run with the ball and score on offense. My opinion of them was that Necro was a reactive team and the flexibilty was what you wanted. Zombies are brilliant at holding the line so that is their job the golums are worth so much more so leave them free to do what you want them to do. The one thing Necro do well is own the sidelines. I used this as my major tactic and it worked well.

Skill ups are vital to the team doing well:

Wolves need block before anything else, dodge keeps them alive longer, tackle if you want a sacker, MB if you get lucky. Development of wolves can be varied but I think block is definitely the #1 skill. Stats take everything! (MA over AV), doubles all depends on who you're building, MB for a killer though.

I completely support everything said about Golum skill ups as it takes forever 14 games I got only 1 blocker.... it was tough going. Great players but they take forever and nothing hurts like losing a skilled up Golum. Stats ST or MA, the rest are not as good (even MA would be sacrificed for block or guard). Doubles would be Dodge (possibly) but I'd probably not take the double.

I took Guard on the wights and found it so useful when screening wolves and when defending. Very good all rounder who is the unsung hero of the team. MB after guard and you are pretty much done. A MA boost would be great on these guys, ST is to die for. Ag is also very useful.

The Ghouls were bought a bit later on (after 2/3 games) and had only 1 for the majority of the TT league. 1st skill was Surehands then 2nd Block. I wanted the reliability in ball handling. By this point both Wolves had block and their roles were changing into the blitzer role whilst the Ghoul was the ball handler. I'd run with him or handoff but I kept him out of harms way. On defense it was nice to have another MA7+ and a mobile assist. The 2nd ghoul gained Block first but with hind sight a wrestle ghoul would have been useful, i'd have probably wanted surehands as the 2nd skill just in case you lose Ghould #1. Stat boosts +AV, +MA, +AG, +ST all good!

Zombies are the best player for their job! I loved my zombies. LOS fodder, get knocked down, get back up again, get knocked down, get back up again. Tie up that minotaur or rat ogre and watch as they roll both bown! fantastic! If someone leaves them free to move just throw them in and gum the works up. Zombies aren't specatcular players but they are wonderful. I took Block on a couple, wrestle on one. You want to keep the value of these guys down to allow the stars of the team to grow without bloating. Stats: I'd have only taken ST+, doubles = guard or stand firm.

Star players for the necro are good. The Count is excellent value. Ag4 and ST5 was very useful when I was playing developed teams. Hypnogaze was also very useful just to really annoy the opponent. Hack Enslash I found useless could not get to grips with him and as Necro doesn't bash it was difficult to get him in positions that I found useful to the team. The Blitz-ra was ok, a good addition but not spectacular. Wilhelm Chaney was brilliant and I'd use him again for ball sacking and creating holes. I didn't use Ram-tut so I can't comment.

Necro work best at low-mid TV. I'd try and avoid bloat as much as possible and use a 13 or 14 man roster, 3RRs. Any more and it is a waste.

[spubbbba]

It does make me quite sad that in crp there are quite a few players that have no great doubles choices.

Golems are a prime example of this as the only decent choice for them is dodge, but on a league team you’d probably want that 4th skill onwards to be combined with BT. Since block, guard and MB are all more useful.

Ghouls are the same, though I always hated rolling doubles for them 1st skill in lrb4 as they had some nice options but never seemed to live long enough to enjoy it without block. I would consider MB if he had block and you already had a ball carrying ghoul.

Wights are tougher as both dodge and jump up are useful but have to compete with guard, MB, Pile On and even tackle.

[RogueThirteen]

I think Dodge for the Wights is worth it. Since they're your only mobile Guard pieces, having Dodge on them makes them even more mobile. It also adds to their protection, and having five or more players with Blodge or Wrodge can really make it tough on your opponents, especially when they're also your fastest most mobile players. I've got a Wight who was lucky to double and took Dodge, and his next skill up will be Stand Firm (couples wonderfully with a Blodging Guarder and will help control the pitch even more, especially on the Sidelines).


For Golems I think the the most convincing argument can be made for Diving Tackle, but even then I'm not quite sold as against a lot of teams the opponent isn't going to want to dodge off and leave your Golem unmarked. Honestly, not having good doubles choices isn't a bad thing, it just means their basic access is excellent (and indeed, G+S provides a fantastic array of skills).

[RogueThirteen]

Here's a related question about Ghoul development. I know the far-and-away paradigm Ghoul development is likely one carrier (Block, Sure Hands, Fend or SS) and one sacker (Wrestle, Tackle), and that's been my plan as well. But I'm realizing just how well Necro play when they're up even one or two players on the pitch, because it makes all of their marking by zombies and golems even more effective, while offering more flexibility in which player you score the touchdown with and really facilitates player development on a team that really needs to build its positional pieces.


Has anyone else thought about or tried to build a Fouling Ghoul? Seeing as they're fairly cheap, vulnerable players I find myself fouling with a rookie Ghoul more often than I thought I would. This is partly for two reasons: they can get where they need to go for a foul easily and against some teams I'd honestly rather have the Ghoul safe in the Sin Bin and keep an expendable and tough Zombie on the pitch.

Ghouls level quickly and have G+AG access, so could in just a few games pick up Sneaky Git and Dirty Player. Since Necro are so slow and rely heavily on the marking strategy, it's not as common to be able to set up a bunch of assists to foul-by-the-numbers. So having Sneaky Git makes it much easier to throw a Foul nearly every turn with that player, assuming stunning the target is worth the risk.

I think it would really bring a great asset to the team, as fouling otherwise seems pretty restrictive and Zombies level so terribly slowly and really you want a Kicker and 3-"LoSers" before you start picking up Dirty Player, I'd think. Not sure it would be worth losing the safety Ghoul, though, and would require picking up Tackle elsewhere earlier (Wights / maybe Wolves in lieu of SS as a 3rd?)

[crimsonsun]

IMO ghouls are too valuable in terms on player cost and more importantly movement on the pitch to be used as a fouling player there is some many much better things you can do with them. If your worried about zombie movement for purposes of fouling take two dirty players as a second skill after block.

The only time i foul with a ghoul is if i want them off the pitch, or the match is decided already and his loss is not consequential. 110k for a player to foul is too much, u get 2 dirty player zombies for 120, and get to keep extra manoeuvrability on the pitch!

Thanks crimsonsun

[mattgslater]

IMO ghouls are too valuable in terms on player cost and more importantly movement on the pitch to be used as a fouling player there is some many much better things you can do with them. If your worried about zombie movement for purposes of fouling take two dirty players as a second skill after block.

The only time i foul with a ghoul is if i want them off the pitch, or the match is decided already and his loss is not consequential. 110k for a player to foul is too much, u get 2 dirty player zombies for 120, and get to keep extra manoeuvrability on the pitch!

This

[swilhelm73]

you want a Kicker and 3-"LoSers" before you start picking up Dirty Player

DP is generally the first Zombie skill I take.

Necro can really take advantage of reducing the number of players on the pitch if they can trade 40-60k Zs vs more expensive players on the opposition. DP helps in that matter substantially, and if you get a bribe, allows you to really even the odds.

Zs are slow, but against bashy teams they aren't going to run around you, and against agile teams you should be willing to sacrifice some position to take out valuable targets like WDs.

Wights are tougher as both dodge and jump up are useful but have to compete with guard, MB, Pile On and even tackle.

Hmm, I'm not sure I would value PO overly highly on wights.

You are mostly going to blitz with the wolves, and you need guard, tackle, and MB on your wights first. Even SF is arguably better on them in most cases.

Of course I do have a Blodge/SS/JU/MB/PO WW, so I might just be spoiled.

[crimsonsun]

I like to have 1 Wight for killing, and one for guard SFing, because WW's are slower to get to the required level, need doubles which i take but that slows them as they also need dodge and block, there is many a time where u do not want you PO killer to be frenzied, it provides another must hit target for your opponent combined with ghouls and WW's. I also like to keep my wolves safely screened behind my team, picking off anyone that comes into my territory and only sending them forward with support and with any threats marked by zombies on not within movement distance to catch them, thus having a killer Wight gives me IMO is great.

Crimsonsun

[RogueThirteen]

I like to have 1 Wight for killing, and one for guard SFing, because WW's are slower to get to the required level, need doubles which i take but that slows them as they also need dodge and block, there is many a time where u do not want you PO killer to be frenzied, it provides another must hit target for your opponent combined with ghouls and WW's. I also like to keep my wolves safely screened behind my team, picking off anyone that comes into my territory and only sending them forward with support and with any threats marked by zombies on not within movement distance to catch them, thus having a killer Wight gives me IMO is great.

Crimsonsun

That's an interesting take. With the wolves having Claws/Frenzy I pretty much want to always use my blitz with one of them, meaning that a killer-Wight wouldn't always be my prime choice for using the blitz. The rare exceptions would be if I need to use a Wrestle/Tackle ghoul sacker to go after an annoying Blodger.

Second, with their very limited strength access, I pretty much want both Wights doing the Guard/SF route because Nuffle only knows when your golems will ever get to 16spp and gain Guard.

Of course, all of this is theory as I've only logged about a half a season with Necro and many of my players aren't beyond one or two skills yet.

[TheDoc]

I like to have 1 Wight for killing, and one for guard SFing, because WW's are slower to get to the required level,
Crimsonsun

A MA8 St3 piece can easily be shovled the ball to and get scores with. The wolves can easily be built up quickly if you want them to. Get them the ball and get scoring. That was the way I got them both to 16 points in 4 games (not to mention the cas caused using claws). The Wights were a no brainer guard. You don't get enough St access and the Golums are a miracle if you can get 16 points so Guard was a definite.

I liked my Ghoul to go get the ball and then either hand off to a wolf or screen behind them to get the scores themselves (This was very successful everyone seems scared of a blodging wolf!)

[crimsonsun]

I like to have 1 Wight for killing, and one for guard SFing, because WW's are slower to get to the required level,
Crimsonsun

A MA8 St3 piece can easily be shovled the ball to and get scores with. The wolves can easily be built up quickly if you want them to. Get them the ball and get scoring. That was the way I got them both to 16 points in 4 games (not to mention the cas caused using claws). The Wights were a no brainer guard. You don't get enough St access and the Golums are a miracle if you can get 16 points so Guard was a definite.

I liked my Ghoul to go get the ball and then either hand off to a wolf or screen behind them to get the scores themselves (This was very successful everyone seems scared of a blodging wolf!)

My meaning about slower to get to the required level is because they start with block, and have str skills standard for MB, PO. A wolf needs block, and then doubles for the bits that really help him claim kills. WW's do gain spp very quickly and easily, but for a wolf to become an proficient killer he needs four, preferably five increases (Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling On, and Dodge due to his now extremely high value as well as jump up if he becomes legendary) that's 51 spp minimum, a wight is good to go on 31, 51 and his jumping up. A wolf killer will be better due to claws, and I think dauntless could be argued with instead of dodge, but I would be happy with just MB on Wolfs, then other skills and leave the lying vulnerable on the floor to a wight.

I do not always use the wight for blitzing either, as once he is in the middle of the action he will rarely need to go anywhere, especially with JU. I like a wight killer because he can dedicate himself to the task faster, requires less luck on skill rolls, is less vital to the teams performance and is easier to replace. Obviously though i do not claim my way is the right way, i just wanted to clarify my meaning along with the reasoning behind it.

Thanks Crimsonsun

[spubbbba]

Wights can make good catcher killers and safties with after guard taking MB, tackle and possibly PO. I don’t see many other players that make a good fit for tackle aside from Wights and maybe a ball hunter ghoul.

Wolves want to get block and dodge 1st as well as pray for doubles to get MB and PO. They also can make excellent use of any stats so that can push tackle quite a bit down the skill route for them unless they only roll normal skills.

[MKL]

I like to have 1 Wight for killing, and one for guard SFing, because (...)
there is many a time where u do not want you PO killer to be frenzied, it provides another must hit target for your opponent combined with ghouls and WW's. I also like to keep my wolves safely screened behind my team (...)

I understand your reasons for having a killer Wight. But how do you cope with the lack of Guard? Tried some exotic build for Wights, but usually the lack of Guard was taxing to me (TT leagues, under 30 games).

[mattgslater]

Fortunately, there's a compromise. Guard is, after all, only one skill. Early on, you can use the Weres to do the hitting while the Wights function as mobile Guard. You may want to build one G/SF Wight, but the other can be on a killer track, one skill behind, with Guard.