Bash against Elves with kick

[swilhelm73]

My Chaos team recently lost its AG4/Sure Hands running goat.

I have no one with +Ag or +MV so I usually use either a rookie or a block BM in the two back receiving slots.

In my most recent game against DE with kick, they were able to exploit this, as the ball went deep and I failed my pickup - they were able to run behind my lines to eventually get a defensive score and I would end up losing 3-1.

My initial offense was the two BMs deep, two other BMs two squares off the line in the widezones and then the other 7 players on the line to set up blocks, as you need to eliminate elves to win the game...

I now face a higher TV DE team this week and face much the same situation.

I could reduce the front line to 5 and put the two free players behind my line of course, but if I am forced to cage deep I'm probably screwed anyway.

Thoughts?


MN: Block, Claw, Tents, Guard, SF
CW: Block, Guard
CW: Block, Guard
CW: Block, Guard [MNG]
CW: Block
BM: Block, Dodge, Tackle, Guard
BM: Wrestle, Tackle, MB, PO
BM: Wrestle
BM: Block, MB
BM: Blockx2
BM: Rookiex2
4 RR
13 players available

[dode74]

You're less screwed caging deep than you are not caging and having them score. Deciding you need to rely on the bash war from turn 1 in order to win the game is, imo, a losing strategy as it is entirely decided by the dice. I think if you play ball control (i.e. get it and keep it) then you'll have players free to win the bash war with while using them to clear advancing lanes for the BC.

CWs for the cage/screen, ofc, ideally with the guard players on opposite corners if caging, and the wrackler as your main blitzer unless hitting something without block.

[swilhelm73]

You're less screwed caging deep than you are not caging and having them score. Deciding you need to rely on the bash war from turn 1 in order to win the game is, imo, a losing strategy as it is entirely decided by the dice. I think if you play ball control (i.e. get it and keep it) then you'll have players free to win the bash war with while using them to clear advancing lanes for the BC.

CWs for the cage/screen, ofc, ideally with the guard players on opposite corners if caging, and the wrackler as your main blitzer unless hitting something without block.

So your suggestion for initial line up would be to have a couple of CWs back from the line say 4 squares?

[dode74]

I would likely go for something like this:

Code: Select all

----|-------|----
....|..BMB..|....
....|.......|....
..B.|.C...C.|.B..
.B..|C.....B|..B.
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
....|B.....B|....
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
-----------------

Guard Mino makes things tough on the LOS for him with Block beasts, and I'd keep one of the Guard CWs as one of the back two along with your MBPO player who can then be free to blitz. Blodge beast would be back to act as BC. Forward outside players would be rookie beasts with rear ones being Block/MB (left, to cover the gap left from the offset MBPO) and Wrestle. Final rear beast would be block.

What you getting for inducements?

[swilhelm73]

Interesting - so you'd suggest an offense that is almost set up as a Ziggarut defense.

One problem though this does limit my offensive strikes. The Mino is the only player to have a kill skill on the line, and there is a 1/6 chance of him failing to throw a block.

Wouldn't it make more sense to at least line up the Block/MB guy next to him on the line to I get potentially two MB opening shots?

Also, I do like the 5 man offensive line slide.

Code: Select all

|..DDD..|
|.BMCCB.|

where you block the targets to the right (in this case) along your line, so that a push lets you throw a second block, and the Mino gets to stand in between potentially all the defenders (if he gets one push).

The final look would be something like.

Code: Select all

|...BDMDDB|
|....CC..|

with hopefully all the elves down and with something like 14 dice potentially thrown, likely.

The 3 on 3 line would mean the likely result is at least one push or double down. I guess I could line up the wrestle BM to take advantage of a double down.

I'll check my inducements and post his roster tonight - I think they'll be in the 300 range. Probably wiz/bribe/babe.

[dode74]

Interesting - so you'd suggest an offense that is almost set up as a Ziggarut defense.

If your main concern is his early counterattack before you've had a chance to protect the ball then that's what I'd set up to prevent, yes. You could put the block/MB guy on the line instead of one of the others, ofc.

[mattgslater]

Offense? Always minimum 5 to the LOS. All your kill skills. Any elf is a deadly elf, your AV ain't great, and you can't afford to be down men. Hurting him before he hurts you is an imperative. Smash smash smash. Maybe only play 5-6 on the LOS, so you can protect the ball and offer a route for a wide cage to redirect towards midfield and the LOS, where you should be dominant.

Defense? Ziggurat. Force them to go one way or another and be ready to respond to the path of least resistance, wrapping around the backside and cutting off the path not taken to prevent a redirect and force a play for the sideline, where your superior ST can make a bigger difference than his superior AG.

[swilhelm73]

I forgot I had a couple of skill ups!


MN: Block, Claw, Tents, Guard, SF
CW: Block, Guard
CW: Block, Guard
CW: Block, Guard [MNG]
CW: Block, [Reg skill]
BM: Block, Dodge, Tackle, Guard
BM: Wrestle, Tackle, MB, PO
BM: Wrestle
BM: Block, MB
BM: Block, [Regular Skill]
BM: Block
BM: Rookiex2
4 RR
1 Cheer/0Coach
13 players available
1840 TV

For the CW I'm thinking either Guard or MB. For the BM either tackle or kick. Note that I plan on giving the guy with wrestle now tackle also when he levels up, so probably kick.

And apparently my opponent got pummeled last match (he played after me). I see he took 2 DEAD and 4 cas overall;

BZ: +MA, Dodge, Tackle, SS, Sure Feet <-- Potential one turn threat
BZ: +ST, Tackle
BZ: Dodge
Witch: +MA
RU: +AG, NoS, Dodge, Pass, Accurate
LN: +AG, Dodge, +MA
LN: Kick, Guard, Wrestle, -AG
LN: +ST, Block, -MA
LN: Wrestle, Dodge
4 RR
1cheer/1coach
*9* players
1760 TV - 1900 TV with Loaners (or if he uses his available 80k to buy a LN)

So I'll probably pick up a coach as well and go into the match with 50k in inducements for a babe. With only 11 players on his side, I'll kick if given the choice. On defense I'll be aggressive, trying force him to take risks to score fast and on offense play relatively conservatively - I think going with the 5 man line. Obviously his two lvl6 players will be targets for my PoMBer. I'll try to tie up his guard player when I have a chance also since he is -ag.

[dode74]

I just realised my setup has 13 players

[Ullis]

I'd give Sure Hands to the Block beastman who skilled up.

If you fail the pick up versus elves you're always going to be in trouble, no matter what your team. As matt said, I'd also set up with 5 on the line (all your hitters plus one Guard warrior to guarantee 3d block for the mino) as you do have to hit stuff. No ziggurat will keep determined elves from your side of the pitch. The warriors, seeing as they're not hitters, can stay on the sidelines, which will make the elf rush harder. Keep one beastman on the center of the pitch, close to the los. He'll be a safety blitzer if you do fail the pick up and you end up with elves in your side of the pitch and you can also hand off to him (this will be much easier when you have Sure Hands on someone) if you can't reach the center of the pitch and the cage otherwise.

Against 11 elves, I might opt to receive. You have enough killing skills to be able to thin the herd a bit and an 11 man elf offence is pretty hard to stop. Stopping 8 elves on the other hand is much, much easier.

[Sandwich]

I just realised my setup has 13 players

Always a good defence against elves

Chaos definitely need to make the mots of the first turn blocks, afterwards you may only be looking at one hi per turn. 5 on LoS with 2 sets of 2 further back is probably best, with 2 players out wide to block the wide zones in case of a blitz.

[Smurf]

Target the dodge guys with your tacklers.

And aim for the kick guy.

[dines]

Definately hope to win the toss and receive. If he had more players I might think differently. Don't take kick on chaos and tackle doesn't really suit your block bm. I'd go for sure hands or mb.

[swilhelm73]

Against 11 elves, I might opt to receive. You have enough killing skills to be able to thin the herd a bit and an 11 man elf offence is pretty hard to stop. Stopping 8 elves on the other hand is much, much easier.

The problem with receiving though, IMO, is I will give him a shot at a one turn touchdown on turn 8, presuming I score on my turn 8...and then kick. If I don't take out a fair number of players, or the mv8 one specifically he ties at the half.

Even if he fails, I then have to stop him to preserve the win.

If I kick, I think with only 11 players I can force him to score quickly, and take some risks to do so. Most hopeful scenario is I force him to score on T2/3 and then have 13-14 turns to grind him before kicking on T16 where I've hopefully reduced the number of players he has to mitigate against the one turn touch down.

[Ullis]

One turning with that MV 8 blitzer is really hard. I wouldn't be too concerned about it really.