Undead advice wanted! [NTBB league]

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:30 am

I can see wrestle, for sure. Pro and dauntless, not so much... If you're hitting a troll with a tar baby, are you not doing it wrong? The threat of a receiving wrestle and a swift boot to the face is surely better. Is fend worth it? I mean, 40k vanilla, 60k with wrestle... Is a wrestle/fend zombie worth two vanilla zombies?

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:41 am

Digger Goreman wrote:(No one should have access to more than two positionals....)

Hi Digger. I don't disagree with your general idea, but how would you fit it to teams like Chaos, Chaos Dwarfs and Lizzies? And to take perhaps the extreme case, how would you fit it to Dwarfs (where every player could be said to be a positional)?

All the best.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:00 pm

Wow, Smeborg, this is one of the biggest problems when dealing with greedy w'nkers games: poor design and the nearly impossible search for balance.... I don't think it is right for this thread....

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:57 am

Digger Goreman wrote:Wow, Smeborg, this is one of the biggest problems when dealing with greedy w'nkers games: poor design and the nearly impossible search for balance.... I don't think it is right for this thread....

I don't have a problem with the relative balance between races as such, but I do have quite a strong nostalgia for the HE and DE team rosters from 3rd Ed. (2+2+2+Linos). But I agree, Digger, probably not a discussion for this thread.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:39 pm

Hi Shteve and Smeborg,
Shteve - just curious, has the league become a sneaky Git-o-rama yet?

Smeborg, you're not the first to wonder if that undead set-up is broken, but so far it hasn't panned out that Way in actual play. We've had a 13-match-Per-team tournament, and the undead were somewhere in the middle. The coach quoted slow skill progression as one of his problems, and playing against them my High Elves were surely a lot less concerned with blitzing mummies. The MBBL will open a full scale NTBB division in december, open to everyone, and you're more than welcome to give the undead a whirl.
IMO block+grab is not as good as MB+guard.
But I'm keeping an eye on them.

Cheers
Martin

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:31 pm

Do your Undead coaches chain into extra blocks off the LOS? Do opposing coaches set up to prevent this?

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:50 pm

The majority of coaches in the tournament are above average.
He used grab to move victims next to his pomb wight and his chainsaw. Grab is definately a nice skill.
But I still don't think it compares to the brute power of MB and Guard. And on top of that, lacking MB seriously slows mummy development. To the speed of BoBs.

Coincidentally, Shteve won't have to contend with that problem because his league uses chosen MVP.
That's a big advantage for certain teams. Like these undead.

Cheers
Martin

vaccine · Post by **vaccine** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:21 pm

Mango wrote: I wouldnt put guard on a wight until maybe 4th skill, I prefer to hit with the wights and have the rest of the team as the support.

Unless you get some early doubles your only easy option for Guard is the Wights, and in NTBB the Mummy's will skill up a lot slower as well not to mention General access which could push their Guard back depending on how you value Block and MB on them. I really think you need two Guard Wight's as soon as possible on this team. After Guard your above suggestion is what I normally do, one with Tackle and one with MB. You can still easily make a MB Frenzy or PO killer if you want after Guard, but that early guard will help out so much more than an early MB does.

Wights are also very easy to skill up by feeding some early touch downs whereas hanging around for a Zombie to skill guard is going to take a while.

Mango · Post by **Mango** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:10 am

vaccine wrote: Unless you get some early doubles your only easy option for Guard is the Wights, and in NTBB the Mummy's will skill up a lot slower as well not to mention General access which could push their Guard back depending on how you value Block and MB on them.

Good point.

Someone mentioned that there was pick the MVP which helps the mummies. Just 1 cas + MVP then pop Guard.

Personally I would go guard 1st on mummy over block. Its great to have them with block but even just having them standing and being annoying/supporting can be enough and so that guard is invaluable.

Just the way I play though, there are a few differnt ways to play undead though so they have some flexibility

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:44 pm

Yep, chosen MVP. Unfortunately, I just couldn't break armour in my first game, so I couldn't take that option, but I'm up against a depleted AV7 team on monday...

Block, for my money, just makes the Mummy so much more reliable a hitter. Putting it on the mummy - who hits maybe 12 or 14 times a game - is a reroll saving skill allocation.

I could see Guard on one, Block/MB on the other. What do you make of that?

I'd then likely go tackle/MB and MB/Tackle on the wights, guarding them if I reach 3 skills.

Thing is, in a guard light league, can I afford to go without, or am I passing up an opportunity to dominate by not taking it at every opportunity?

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:34 pm

Shteve0 wrote:Yep, chosen MVP. Unfortunately, I just couldn't break armour in my first game, so I couldn't take that option, but I'm up against a depleted AV7 team on monday...

Block, for my money, just makes the Mummy so much more reliable a hitter. Putting it on the mummy - who hits maybe 12 or 14 times a game - is a reroll saving skill allocation.

I could see Guard on one, Block/MB on the other. What do you make of that?

I'd then likely go tackle/MB and MB/Tackle on the wights, guarding them if I reach 3 skills.

Thing is, in a guard light league, can I afford to go without, or am I passing up an opportunity to dominate by not taking it at every opportunity?

The Mummies are so important to this team (and so good in this version) that I would be tempted to give them the MVPs anyway, regardless of whether they get SPPs in the game. 3 MVPs and 1 CAS is 2 skills for them, 6 MVPs to get 2 skills on both.

The league is of defined length, therefore you are (probably) not looking at 3 or 4 skills for most of the players (Mummies included). You need to make the call whether to go M-Blow heavy, or Guard-heavy.

Mango · Post by **Mango** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:19 am

Smeborg wrote:I would be tempted to give them the MVPs anyway, regardless of whether they get SPPs in the game.

I like that suggestion. other positionals can throw/score so giving the mvp's to the mummies is a great idea.

Actually I take back my suggestion of guard as 1st pick. Its a fixed length league so you need the wins instead of planning long term. I like guard for a long term skill but if you need the wins on the board now (as you do) block would definately be better.

Block definately gives you the reliability and the smackdown, the MB helps, still not sure if I would take MB or Guard and 2nd increase though. MB helps but it only +1 whereas Guard can turn 1dbs into 2dbs which is a massive odds improvement.

Your call mate, do what you think is best and see how it goes

Jimmy Fantastic · Post by **Jimmy Fantastic** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:40 am

MB tackle is the way forward for wights. I tried wrestle on a couple of ghouls but would limit it to only one wrestler in future. Fouling and DP isn't such a great strategy for Undead anymore. Giving up your positioning for a +1 to injury just isn't worth it a lot of the time. I would still take a couple of DP though.

spubbbba · Post by **spubbbba** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:42 am

With chosen MVP I’d certainly spam those on the mummies and give them both block 1st. After that it depends on how the rest of the team is skilling up.

I’d probably be tempted by guard since that goes well with block and grab leaving the wights to take MB and tackle (or guard if opponents are dodge light). If your and opposing teams TV starts shooting up them those MVP’s may be worth giving to zombies if they’ll skill in the hope of getting some more doubles for guard.

Otherwise take zombies with no skills or with just block and a couple with just dp to avoid TV bloat.

Ghouls skill themselves and tend not to last long so standard skills for them all the way.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:55 pm

Thanks guys, there's a developing consensus here. Appreciate the feedback!

Plan from here is to slap MVPs on Mummies, get them Block.

Looks like MB/Tackle are lined up for wights, with Guard or PiOn in the event they hit 3 skills.

Ghouls will be left to get their own SPPs, looking for 1xblock/sure hands, 1xwrestle/strip ball, and maybe a pair of blackle later in the league. My biggest concern is the number of Ag 4 catchers I expect to face, so I figure I need markers who pack a punch. I could just go passblock/catch of course...

For zombies, since it's targetted MVPs, they'll remain vanilla. Minor point of order though, Jimmy - NTBB rules has generic +1 to fouls, so a single mummy/skelly with DP has +2 on their own. Does that sway you?

Thanks again, all. Game 2 up monday!

Cheers

S

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