Diving Tackle and Dodge

[Haar]

Haar, just because you are using a dodge re-roll, does not mean you are making a 2nd dodge, you are just re-rolling the dice for the 1st dodge. Therefore, any modifiers in use on the 1st one, are used for the 2nd.

Again, that's exactly what I mean. All the modifiers in place for the first roll should be in place for the second. Why should there be a new modifier just for the second roll (DT)? I don't think there should be.

And as far as the complexity argument goes, I feel that my first proposed ruling made things simpler: "No modifiers on the rerolled die that weren't there for the first roll". No problem with that. The reasons it feels so complex is that I'm trying to point out the complexity in the other method. But whatever.

[Bevan]

Haar, just because you are using a dodge re-roll, does not mean you are making a 2nd dodge, you are just re-rolling the dice for the 1st dodge. Therefore, any modifiers in use on the 1st one, are used for the 2nd.

Again, that's exactly what I mean. All the modifiers in place for the first roll should be in place for the second. Why should there be a new modifier just for the second roll (DT)? I don't think there should be.

And as far as the complexity argument goes, I feel that my first proposed ruling made things simpler: "No modifiers on the rerolled die that weren't there for the first roll". No problem with that. The reasons it feels so complex is that I'm trying to point out the complexity in the other method. But whatever.

I initially agreed with this but then realised that Break Tackle also causes the same problem. You can only use this once per turn and may want to save it for a later dodge. So if you don't declare break tackle when you roll a 1, and decide to use a team reroll, can you declare break tackle after seeing the rerolled result. I think you can use Break tackle in this way so it is hard to rule out Diving Tackle being used against you after the reroll.

I think we have to assume that when you use a reroll you have discarded the original roll and now have a new result to consider. Now that both players have seen the result they can apply whatever skills they want to modify the result (Diving Tackle or Break Tackle).

[GalakStarscraper]

EXACTLY Bevan ... I don't hear ANYONE complaining about how difficult Break Tackle is to understand.

I'm a Minotaur with Break Tackle ... I roll a 1 to Dodge, I have Pro, I succeed with the Pro roll to reroll the Dodge .... I roll a 2 and now declare Break Tackle ... TA DA!!!! ... same thing .... if I had rolled a 6 for the 2nd roll I would have never used Break Tackle for the entire sequence and would have it available if I needed to do a 2nd dodge roll.

So Haar ... does Break Tackle bother you ... if it doesn't ... its the EXACT same thing as DT.

Galak

[Skummy]

You can certianly use Break Tackle in this manner. It is a dodge modifier, so if you roll a 6 on the dodge, you can save the Break Tackle until later in the player's movement.

[Haar]

EXACTLY Bevan ... I don't hear ANYONE complaining about how difficult Break Tackle is to understand.

I think I'm being misinterpreted here. I'm not complaining about how difficult the game is to understand, just that I think we're making a wrong turn in rule interpretations.

Yes, Break Tackle bothers me. Let me be very clear here. I am bothered by the fact you can change some modifiers on a roll and not others between roll and reroll. If you said "Fine, each time you reroll, recount all the mods and start over", I'd be happy. If you said "Fine, don't change anything 'twixt roll and reroll", I'd be happy. What you are saying is, "Change some of these things (BT, DT), but not these other things (Tackle zones on a dodger)", for no really convincing reason.

I hate to nitpick, but it is in the details of the game that we make blood bowl great.

Maybe we should have some sort of stack or queue system. We could make explicit the timing of things like declaring skills, responding to opponent's skill use, rerolls, counting up modifiers, etc.

[GalakStarscraper]

Haar ... you win ... I'll add changing the DT text to say that the player goes prone after the Dodge has been fully resolved to the BBRC Hot List for 2003.

That should solve all of this. That's where your hang-up is so fine. All modifiers can be applied at any point in time and then effect the entire sequence until resolved ... I don't think many folks find this problematic. But the immediate prone wording of DT bugs you so fine ... we'll get it changed.

Galak

[Deathwing]

Stack? Queue? Oh no....shades of MTG....
Let's just play ball.