Can you Reroll a pass scatter?

[Quilwood]

The question seems simple enough, but... The LRB says you may only use a team reroll on an action a player on your team makes, so is the inaccurate pass an action? Now what if you use the Hail Mary Pass skill. This skill makes every pass an inaccurate one, so then the scatter is part of the skill roll, correct? You roll a d8 three times to see where it lands, so can you use a team reroll on one roll and pro on another? Could you use a trophy reroll on the third? I hope my Chaos dwarf team can use this tactic and diving tackle (which btw doesnt' have to put you next to the ball, but any one square without dodging).

Hmmm what other sneaky combos can i think of

[Balrog]

I don't think you can reroll a scatter die, but I couldn't find it in the rules. Hopefully one of the rules gurus will step up and answer this one.

In any case, rerolling a scatter wouldn;t be very effective IMO.

-Balrog

[Mirascael]

so is the inaccurate pass an action?

And what is an "action" anyhow? I still need proof that Dauntless is a rerollable action...

[GalakStarscraper]

You are only allowed to reroll rolls made by a PLAYER ON THE PITCH during your turn. Anything else cannot be rerolled with a team or Leader rerolls.

Scatter dice are just effect dice not rolls made by a player so they cannot be rerolled. Take Root ... off pitch ... cannot be rerolled.

Apothecary ... off pitch ... he's not a player ... cannot be rerolled.

KO ... player not on pitch ... cannot be rerolled.

Argue the Call ... UNLESS its by a Vampire Lord on the pitch ... its not a roll by a player on the pitch ... so it cannot be rerolled.

Hope this helps.

Galak

[Mirascael]

Yep, it does, thanks. Though it won't convince a certain league commish.

[Quilwood]

Galak you are saying anything a player rolls can be rerolled. Well in the Hail Mary pass description it says to first roll a die 6 and if you roll a one it's a fumble (So, this is a special roll not a normal pass roll with modifiers right?). Then if it is not fumbled you roll 3 ball scatters. Why isn't this part of the players action? I could see not reroll a scatter for a normal pass (it is a result of the players failed action), but Hail Mary has it's own special rules, like the fumble, which include rolling 3 scatters.

If you aren't allowed to reroll a scatter then who actually uses this skill? It is going to end your turn over half the time even if you have a diving catcher.

I was going to ask about the redundancey (sp?) of Strong Arm, but I see thats already been asked and ruled on (which i think is the wrong way to go). In my opinion Strong arm should be better than accurate, so it should be useable with dump off, blizzard and everything else.

Well this looks like this just might be one of the rules filed under the "Because we felt like it" rulings.

[GalakStarscraper]

If you aren't allowed to reroll a scatter then who actually uses this skill? It is going to end your turn over half the time even if you have a diving catcher.

Yup ... its meant to be a HIGH RISK play ... let me earn my Numba Cruncha title hear:

Odds of a HMP landing on the target square: 6%
Odds of landing 1 square away withing Diving Catch range: 42%
Odds of landing 2 squares away: 36%
Odds of landing 3 squares away: 16%

So for a HMP/Diving Catch combo ... there is a 48% chance that you'll be able to try to catch the ball and an 84% that you'll have a TZ on the ball if its not caught.

But HMP/DC is a big play ... you can bomb the thing the whole field so its gotta have some risk .... let's compare that with another high risk play that can have big rewards ... Throw TeamMate

Okay HMP Pass on a player that cannot reroll the HMP to an AG 3 Catch/Diving Catch player: Odds that the DC player will catch the ball .... 36%

TTM Short pass by a rookie Treeman of a rookie Halfling with the ball no rerolls .... Odds that the Halfling will land on feet ...... 36%

Looks about right to me.

Galak

[Zombie]

and an 84% that you'll have a TZ on the ball if its not caught.

Wrong. It's much lower than that because you forgot about the scatter when it falls.

I should be da numba kruncha!

By the way, Galak is right: no rerolls on scatters.

[GalakStarscraper]

and an 84% that you'll have a TZ on the ball if its not caught.

Wrong. It's much lower than that because you forgot about the scatter when it falls.

I should be da numba kruncha!

By the way, Galak is right: no rerolls on scatters.

Okay Zombie is right .... delete the 84% comment about having a TZ on the ball as I didn't go out to figure the 4 scatter ... ie the bounce.

Oh and Zombie ... you want that title ... instead of coming back and telling me I'm wrong ... come back with the number ....

To restate ... there is an 84% chance it will LAND within your TZ.

Now since Zombie didn't throw the number out here is the revised probability on the end of that conversation.

Assumption made ... no one is able to catch the ball other than the Diving Catch Player.

Okay, you HMP ... there is a 48% chance that the player will get a chance to catch it. So what about the 52% of the time that it lands outside that range. .... 53% of the time it will bounce back into an adjacent square or to the square you Diving Catch'd to. Meaning that Zombie's "much lower" comment ... is 76% of the time the ball will be in your TZ ... so sue me for being 8% high.

Galak

[Zombie]

Actually, i just ran the numbers and you're still wrong. Assuming that the pass is not a fumble (which you obviously did also since your totals amount to 100%), the chances are as follow:

Ball falling on the player's square before or after he dives : 46.875%
Ball falling next to the player after he dives : 32.8125%
Ball falling 2 squares away after he dives : 20.3125%

Ball bouncing to his square after he dives : 4.1016%
Ball bouncing next to him after he dives : 22.0703%
Ball bouncing at least 2 squares away after he dives : 26.9531%

Player getting a catch roll either before or after a bounce : 50.9766%

Now give me my title!

[Zombie]

If you don't believe me, try to use a table like this. These are the chances (all the numbers are fractions of 512) of the ball falling on the square. Multiply all those by 4 to account for the other 3 quarters of the table, except of course the middle square. Then work out the probabilities from there and then work out the different possible bounces from each square (except of course the 9 center squares were it won't bounce from since the player will attempt to catch).

I didn't show the probability of the ball ending up in the player's hands (which depend on his AG and whether he has catch or a team reroll) and the ball scattering after he fails the attempt, but those are very easy to figure out from just the end results provided in my other post above.

Code: Select all

1  3  6  7  ?  ?  ?
3  6 12 12  ?  ?  ?
6 12 27 27  ?  ?  ?
?  ?  ? 24  ?  ?  ?
?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?
?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?
?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?

[GalakStarscraper]

That will teach me to try and run numbers during a conference call .... sum of the square wasn't 8 cubed when I checked ... oh well.

Zombies's numbers are right for the initial landing ... and I didn't check but I'm sure they are true for the other stats .... as for having a TZ on the ball after an HMP/DC combo ... well you should either be holding it or adjacent to it 73% of the time which isn't too bad for a full pitch play.

46.9% starting base for being able to catch it + 26.1%ish chance that it will either bounce back into your hands or your TZ.

Anyway for anyone interested in the math .... the following picture might help ... add up all the numbers in the picture and then add up the ones of any one color and that's the odds of it being in that color. The bottom one is the final bounce which removes the odds of yellow and green from the 3rd picture as if either of those were true the ball didn't bounce as you'd have been able to catch it.

The 3rd picture holds true for inaccurate passes as well, if you want to keep it mind.

And Zombie ... I never asked for the title ... so I could have a rat's butt care less whether I have it or not. But you are correct that I rushed the math on this one and blew it.

Galak