Slann development question

[Smeborg]

Another little update: I managed a narrow and tense win against a close rival Orc team. 1-0 (CAS: 2-4). A game both wild and dour at the same time.

I gave away exactly 150,000 in inducements, just enough for the Wizard, who nearly secured a draw for my opponent. I ended up with 3 Linefrogs on the pitch, and rarely had more than 2 Catchers on the field, as they were successfully targetted. The -AV Blodge Catcher copped a Niggle, and now retires, the AG5 Catcher got -1AV (but got to his 4th skill), a Wrestle Linefrog died. In return I put a Niggle on the Blodge Orc Thrower. All 3 Slann Guarders survived, I used the Apoth on the Guard Catcher (would have been -1MA), he was a key player in several sacking plays. 2 Heavy teams still to face (Orcs, Khemri). Game went to the last turn, my opponent had a 1/6 chance to equalise, but failed.

The team after 12 games (10 wins, 2 losses, TDs; 38-13, CAS: 17-25):

Catcher: +AG, Dodge, S-Throw, Block, [-1AV, MNG}, (53 SPPs)
Catcher: Dodge, Guard (22)
Catcher; Dodge, Block (20)
Catcher: - (0)
Linefrog: Guard, Wrestle (21)
Linefrog: Wrestle, S-Ball (20)
Linefrog: Guard, Wrestle (19)
Linefrog: Wrestle, Kick (18)
Linefrog: Wrestle (8)
Linefrog: - (5)
4 rookie Linefrogs without SPPs
5RR, 9FF, 1AC, 1CL, Apoth, TV152 (171 when the AG5 Catcher returns)

All the best.

[Edit: p.s. I forgot to mention that I used Safe Throw for the first time in this match, on defense in the second half. It worked, and may be said to have saved the game for me (the recipient of the pass did not score, because he got an immediate Lightning Bolt in the neck, but the manoeuvre helped to secure the winning shut-out.

p.p.s. The game was not too brutal in terms of the number of CAS, but 4 out of 5 injury rolls against the Slann were 5s or 6s. 2 out of 3 injury rolls against the Orcs ditto, for a total of 6/8 such rolls in the game.]

[Overhamsteren]

That is a serious TD difference

[Smeborg]

That is a serious TD difference

Yes, it's the best I've had with any team. Quite remarkable, and tells a story in itself. To be fair, we have a handful of new players in the league this year (out of 20 players).

I also won the "most TDs" prize in my first tourney with Slann, using the same "system". To be fair, my second tourney with them was not very good.

This season, I have only once failed to score more than 1 TD, in the narrow win referred to above. Best result was 5-0 against a newbie playing Dwarfs, one of these was because I got a Blitz!

The average score with this team is 3-1...

All the best.

[Smeborg]

An update on the Wrestle/Guard combo.

It worked rather well in the last game (the first game IIRC in which the team had 2 Wrestle/Guard Linos). Once in each half, one of these players consumed an opposition re-roll, from a both down result (caging player did not want to go down). Also, I used one of these players at least once for a sack attempt on the ball carrier. Also, with 6 Wrestle players on the pitch, there were a pleasing number of both down results in the match.

So it looks like a good combo against caging teams. I'm happy with it.

All the best.

[Shteve0]

Hello from sunny Wellington!

Just popping my head up to say excellent work on keeping this blog going, Smeborg - I've been following with interest and will no doubt benefit from your experience when I run these in our next season (starting August). I recently tried out the Slann in a sevens game (4-2 win over skaven) and found I really enjoyed the challenge. Since I had the cash spare (you can't buy rerolls in sevens) and it was a one off game I took a pair of blitzers... I found them really useful against a fellow AG team, but since our leagues tend to have a few bash teams around I plan to try out your system.

I don't expect to do as well as you have of course, but coming to the end of a challenging season with Chaos Pact I'm certainly looking forward to having players that move when they're told!

All the best mate

Steve

[Warpstone]

Smeborg, in the end, I was done in by a well-played Woodie in our playoff semis. I found the no-blitzer build philosophy was aces against bash teams as I was able to routinely pop and hop for defensive TDs against them. In fact, I even somehow finished first in the regular season. But ultimately I just could not do enough to hurt or mark Woodies with a one-turner to boot. I'm still only at game 12 (~170TV), so the sample is still small, but I do think I'm probably going to try to develop two blitzers (killers) to deal with opponents who are now also close or over spiralling expenses.

I'd enjoy your thoughts again on countering the elves after your next meeting with them.

[Shteve0]

Having just tried out Slann in an (admittedly limited value) Sevens game against Skaven, I found that the blitzer's diving tackle is big against AG teams.

Warpstone, what environment are you playing (perpetual, reset, how many games)? Was the WE team developed over the same timescale as your slann? How's your treasury looking?

I guess developed WEs with a OTT option are always going to be a tough match up for most teams, but interested to know what you might have done differently if you could step back 1, 2, 5 matches and do them over

[Warpstone]

Perpetual. All our rookie teams start in the same league and play a 10 game, fixed regular season. Thereafter it's an elimination playoff bracket for the rookie league cup. All sophmore and older teams play in the big-boy league where TV can span from 150 to 270.

This is my Slann post-playoffs:
http://thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/index.php?se ... obj_id=324

This is the dastardly woodie (after he played in the final match and lost to Dark Elves):
http://thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/index.php?se ... obj_id=309

On paper, I look pretty good but the problem of course is that I just could not make the Elves pay dearly enough for their scoring drives. The game ended 5-3: http://thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/index.php?se ... t&mid=3484

The long and the short of it is that I couldn't play more 'balls to the wall' than a well-coached woodie and was not efficient enough to even take targets of opportunity out of the game. I agree wholeheartedly with Smeborg's theory that the Blitzer is generally over-rated. But in this case, I just don't think I can outplay Woodies without a true killer blitzer. I would basically work my butt off to score and then suffer a quick woodie TD in reply. I got back into the game in 2nd half where it was 4-3 at one point, but then got intercepted after being forced into a stretch play to go for the draw. Usually, it's me forcing the other team to stretch the field and take those risks.

[Smeborg]

Smeborg, in the end, I was done in by a well-played Woodie in our playoff semis. I found the no-blitzer build philosophy was aces against bash teams as I was able to routinely pop and hop for defensive TDs against them. In fact, I even somehow finished first in the regular season. But ultimately I just could not do enough to hurt or mark Woodies with a one-turner to boot. I'm still only at game 12 (~170TV), so the sample is still small, but I do think I'm probably going to try to develop two blitzers (killers) to deal with opponents who are now also close or over spiralling expenses.

I'd enjoy your thoughts again on countering the elves after your next meeting with them.

I tend to agree with your assessment, which is that the no-Blitzer/no-Krox build is great against bash teams (in both leagues and tourneys). My games against the AG4 teams have been tougher and tighter, but the results have still gone very much my way (drew with DEs due to a blunder on my part, beat HEs with little difficulty, beat PEs 4-3 thanks to a Blitz!). 6 matches to go in our league, as follows:

Khemri (2nd place)
Orcs (6th=)
Gobbos (10th)
Humans (11th)
Humans (15th)
Chaos (20th)

So no more AG teams. But mainly I felt that the Slann's outstanding ability to threaten the ball on defense worked well enough against the Elves. Trading TDs, with at least one turnover in favour of the Slann.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Warpstone - that's a rather good WE team. The only suggestion I have is that if you had dropped the Krox and Blitzer, you might quite possibly have had a Wizard to help you.

All the best.

[Warpstone]

Good point. Are you usually the underdog in most of your matches?

[Smeborg]

Good point. Are you usually the underdog in most of your matches?

No, I am usually the overdog, although so far I have only conceded a Wizard twice in 12 matches (IIRC).

The reason I am usually overdog is simply because I have gained quite a bit more SPPs and skill advances than my opponents.

My underlying TV is 124:

4 Catchers
10 Linefrogs
5 Re-rolls
Apoth
1AC/1CL

The 5 Re-rolls are the key to this team IMO. The need for lean TV follows.

If I had the same amount of skill advances as other teams, I would not expect to ever concede a Wizard (except against Flings and Gobbos).

Hope that helps.

[Smeborg]

Another match this week, rather unlucky, indeed approaching disaster. But a wild and highly entertaining game for both coaches.

I was hoping for a "recovery" game, instead I got an out-of-sequence match against rather well-coached Orcs. I received and promptly fumbled the pass to score on turn 2. Not good, as 3 players immediately flew into the dugout, and the Apoth was blown (Blodge Catcher killed, Apoth'd to MNG). After a turn's delay, I sacked the ensuing Orc cage, and scored on turn 6, stalling for 1 turn. A deep kick saw the Orcs in trouble, I forced a risky passing play which failed, the Slann recovered the ball and had a good chance (about 80%) to go 2-0 up on turn 8 (this would have won the game). It failed.

2nd half: another lovely deep kick was nullified by High Kick. The Orcs caged up on half way, the Slann sacked the cage twice, but the ball scattered favourably for the Orcs both times. The cage, which was never secure, lost shape, yielding a great 6-die sack chance for the Slann (35/36) on turn 14. It failed. With only 8 Linefrogs on the pitch, and my opponent stalling, I nearly managed a ludicrous 2-die sack on a 7-man cage on turn 15, sadly the last GFI for this great and glorious manoeuvre failed.

Result: 1-1 draw (CAS: 0-5). 2 more Permanent Injuries, the Catchers are starting to limp now. I started this match with 3 catchers, for the next match I have 2. In return, despite many knockdowns, I managed 2 stuns... Here is the team now:

Catcher: +AG, Dodge, S-Throw, Block [-AV] (53 SPPs)
Catcher; Dodge, Guard [Niggle, MNG] (24)
Catcher: Dodge, Block [MNG} (20)
Catcher: - (3)
Linefrog: Guard, Wrestle (21)
Linefrog: Wrestle, S-Ball (20)
Linefrog: Guard, Wrestle (19)
Linefrog: Wrestle, Kick (18)
Linefrog: Wrestle (10)
Linefrog: Wrestle [-AG, MNG]
4 rookie Linefrogs (0)
5RR, 8FF, 1AC/1CL, Apoth, TV:139 (172 if MNG players return)

The Linefrogs showed great resilience in this game, especially the lovely 2-skill Linefrogs. Guard (in and around the cage), Kick (2 deep kicks) and S-Ball (one sack) all worked beautifully.

What has hurt in the last 2 games is a rare combination of 3 things:

- Poor luck on the ball
- Unkind Casualty roll distribution (7 out of 11 have been 5s or 6s)
- Lack of SPPs to further skill up the Catchers

Next game will be "interesting". I will probably buy another Linefrog to give a reserve and to help keep skilled players off the LoS (if all goes well, I would expect to retire the crippled Lino after the next game). I have to win all 5 remaining matches to be certain of securing top spot. Much will depend on who I play next. It will be interesting to see the state of the Catchers at the end of the season.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Finally had a glorious recovery game, although it was due as much to luck as to judgment. Beat the lowest ranked player in the league (Chaos) 2-0. The first 3 pass attempts to the end zone (with RR) failed, so things were a bit tense. 4th time lucky (once the RRs were gone, naturally). First pass to the end zone in the second half also failed. Luckily I was remembering to make all my safety moves first, but the failed passes still meant I had a lot ot players left in contact. Over half my ball-handling rolls in the match were 1s.

Injury and casualty roll distribution was fortunate, 3 CAS but all BH, only 1 KO, lots of stuns. So I am back to 14 players now.

Guard very useful once again (only 2 Guard players playing, both Linefrogs), it enabled me to take myriad safe blocks to stay out of contact and away from all that Claw/M-Blow. One of the Guarders was BHd mid-match, but he did better than my opponent's only Guarder, who was CASd at the first kick-off by a thrown rock (very helpful to me). S-Ball proved its worth once again, it got one of my 3 or 4 sacks in the first 7-turn drive. Playing a whole team with 2 Catchers was different, I had to take care with their positioning. The rookie Catcher got lucky, he not only survived many blocks (he was typically the main Receiver), but he skilled up. The team now:

Catcher: +AG, Dodge, S-Throw, Block [-AV] (54 SPPs)
Catcher: Dodge, Guard [Niggle] (24)
Catcher: Dodge, Block (20)
Catcher: Dodge (9)
Linefrog: Guard, Wrestle (21)
Linefrog: Wrestle, S-Ball (20)
Linefrog: Guard, Wrestle (19)
Linefrog: Wrestle, Kick (18)
Linefrog: Wrestle (10)
Linefrog: - (5)
4 rookie Linefrogs (0)
FF9, 1AC, 1CL, Apoth, TV173

3 players have been retired so far, with 39 SPPs between them. Still carrying 2 cripples, but I always feel comfortable once all the Catchers have Dodge. The famous 4 (Linefrogs with 2 skills each) continue to show their outstanding worth in each match they play. Linefrog resilience remains quite good, it is the Catchers who are squishy. I can understand that in a long campaign they could be a weak point.

A good night at the club, 8 games of BB in progress. A very good night for me, as my nearest rivals suffered. The Khemri team that was level on points with the Slann got a draw against a rookie CD coach (our only girl, a good scalp for her). The Orc teams that pounded the Slann (near-rivals) got a loss (to Gobbos) and a draw (Chaos) respectively. Just 4 matches to go, nearly on the home straight... We are trying to make the Slann vs. Khemri game the last of the season (we are 1st and 2nd currently).

All the best

[Warpstone]

A very good night for me, as my nearest rivals suffered.

LMAO!

Indeed, schadenfreude is one of the purest forms of joy that a league can provide.