passing and handoff in the same turn

[Mirascael]

Maybe...I just don't get why JJ would write a rule meaning one thing, add a rule, then rewrite the rules w/o the addition and have it not mean the same thing??? Nobody has told me a reason why it should work. The Wording is agianst you.

No it's not. Obviously you haven't read the rules properly.
And there have been reasons told, too, including where to find the rules which explicitly allow it.
More we cannot do.

[wesleytj]

Maybe...I just don't get why JJ would write a rule meaning one thing, add a rule, then rewrite the rules w/o the addition and have it not mean the same thing??? Nobody has told me a reason why it should work. The Wording is agianst you. Take it to an English Prof.

i'm not going to take it to an english prof, because i'm not into semantic arguments. i know how the rule is supposed to work, and i don't care if it's worded poorly.

and even if for some goofy reason jj did intend to make it one or the other (pass or ho) in any given turn I'm certainly not going to play it that way.

[mikeyc222]

poxous, you're really not looking at the entire rule,. just a sentence or 2. if a hand off counted as your pass action, then there wouldn't be the several destinctions that there are between the 2. your looking at one sentence in the beginning of the paragraph that is an introduction. the rules say "handing off the ball is an action." right there. couldn't be more plainly stated. it does not say handing off counts as your PASS action, is clearly says it is an action by itself, and then goes on to compare it to "Move, Blitz, Pass, ect." if a hand off WAS your pass action then why would the rules say it was an action LIKE a pass?
once again, stop flogging the dead horse as NO ONE agrees with you...not one.

[neoliminal]

Is it possible do throw a pass after a handoff was made in the same turn ?

Yes it is.

[GalakStarscraper]

Is it possible do throw a pass after a handoff was made in the same turn ?

Yes it is.

Neo is one of the rules makers so that ALMOST as good as the horse's mouth (ie JJ) ... and heck on 70% of the days its probably better than the horse's mouth.

Poxous .... Let me add my two cents by saying ... read the whole frecking book and not just the one sentence you want to ...

You kept saying the book doesn't support what everyone was telling you:

"Handing off the ball is an action, like Move, Blitz, Pass, etc. "

PLEASE notice that Handoff is a SEPERATE action from Pass. One does not preclude the other and no twisting of the rules will result in your conclusion. Bottom line, any BB tournament official that has a clue will tell you that you can do both.

H*LL, its one of the STAPLE plays of the stunty teams. Pick up the ball, Handoff to the stunty next to the Big Guy ... then the Big Guy declares a Pass and lobs the Stunty in for the 1 turn score. Seriously EVERYONE who plays Stunty teams knows this play is legal with LRB rules.

You are fighting very much a losing battle here.

Galak

[Darkson]

Yes you can do both in one turn, and yes, I was at the official GW BB tournament, and yes, I did do this play, and yes, it was legal.


Happy?

[Poxous]

I give guys. You win.

I really think it need to be cleared up in the rules. I have handed said rule book to 4 people who have never played BB and 4 of say a hand is a pass. But.... Whatever. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I heard the point brought at Balti. Then I reread( having played hand off and pass). I understand everyone uses it. And I see ythe line where it say a HO is an action like.... O.k. fine. To me that argument says nothing, but I'll end this.

Please JJ try to reword hand offs or reintroduce the update from BB mag that allowed this to happen. It seems flawed to have a rule, introduce a new version calling a had off a pass and allowing two pass actions per turn, then redoing the BB rules w/o the new part with wording just like the original part; a part that you felt you had to update in the first place to introduce the new hand off rules! Just for a-holes like me who read the rules as writen and not as people 'feel' like playing with the rule cos it's better. I agree BB is better with it. It was never my point to stop hand off and passes in the same turn. I just wanted to know where it said I could. Nobody has pointed out where it says you can. I hear 'read the line where it says it's like a blitz or pass'??? and.... that means... it's an action furthing my point. I hear it's an expert rule. WTF? Dugh? Now this means what? Oh, that it's like the basic rules for what? Hmmmm... an action, a pass action. Agian nowhere.

The fact is NOWHERE does it say you CAN. NOWHERE. JJ felt it was needed to ADD this in 4th ed. WHY? WHY would he add the rule if it was already in the rules? Ignored by all who have bashed my piont. Also, why was the original rule reprinted WORD FOR WORD yet not played THE SAME!!! So I'm done. I'll loose. I'd still play in my league no matter what because it's fun. You guys agree. O.k. I'm done......

Slam, bash, have fun!

[GalakStarscraper]

Also, why was the original rule reprinted WORD FOR WORD yet not played THE SAME!

I'm going to address this just in case anyone else thinks this is true ... and 4th edition never existed, so using the real editions we get:

3rd edition:

Code: Select all

A hand-off is a type of very Short pass, where the ball is
simply handed to a player that is in an adjacent square.
A hand-off may be carried out at any time, even part way through
another players's move, and does not count as an action
for either the player who hands off the ball or the player who
receives it.   However, the ball may not be handed off more than
once per team turn, and the ball many not be handed off in the
opponent's turn.  A coach is allowed to both hand off and pass the ball
in the same turn.

LRB:

Code: Select all

A hand-off is a type of very Short pass, where the ball is
simply handed to a player that is in an adjacent square.
Handing off the ball is an action, like Move, Blitz, Pass,
etc. You may only declare one hand-off action per turn.
The hand-off is made after the player’s move, just like a
pass. The ball may not be handed off more than once
per team turn, and the ball may not be handed off in the
opponent’s turn.

Very different wording. The key change here is the one that answers your question Poxous ... really it does:
3rd edition:

Code: Select all

A hand-off ... does not count as an action

LRB

Code: Select all

Handing off the ball is an action, like Move, Blitz, Pass, etc.

An action is an event in Blood Bowl. I know you know this but you are ignoring it. The reason that 4 people off the street agree with you is that they don't realize that Action in Blood Bowl is a very key word. A player is only allowed one action per a turn. Some action are limited. Blitz, Foul, and Pass are defined as usuable only once a turn in their descriptions ... and by the rules saying this:

Code: Select all

You may only declare one hand-off action per turn.

Thus its clear the rules ADD a Hand-off action to that list of actions. Making it fairly clear that a Hand-off is a seperate event/action from a Pass action.

You asked for the text to prove the point ... I'm just providing it for others reading the thread.

Now that all said, I'll add to my list for the BBRC to review to either remove the Short pass reference from the Hand-off description or to add back in the 3rd edition you can do both sentence to the rules for you since you fought so valiantly for your point.

Galak