Khemri Tactics

[fidius]

Looking for some input on how to respond to certain tactics with Khemri.

Entering a 10-game season where I expect to see 4-5 elf teams (Dark, High, Wood). The conventional wisdom vs Khemri is to stretch the field, avoid contact, get them running around, then play elfball and hope you don't take casualties. This seems to work very well, on me at least! It looks like this:

• o Punch a hole and run at least 2 catcher types backfield, likely with blodge/sidestep, far enough apart that you can't mark them with single players each
  o Pick up the ball and leave the thrower downfield for as many turns as necessary
  o The rest of the team runs midfield interference, always having a few options for the chain TD

As long as elf teams get average dice, they seem to be able to play this game all day, and as everyone knows once you get into Turn 5 or 6 they can safely score without fear of a counter-score.

So the first question is whether to focus on the backfield catchers, ignore them and go after the thrower, or be content to play midfield position. The only one of those options that doesn't involve playing into the "stretching the field" tactic is the midfield one. Thus the common answer seems to be to apply enough bash pressure that they score early out of fear. My experience is that they are too slippery to get good licks in, and when you do get knockdowns, carnage is only hit-and-miss. In other words, forcing them to score quickly is not easy.

If the answer is, "don't let them get behind you" (a rule I try to live by with Khemri in particular), please provide some ideas in that respect. In a "zig" type defense I would probably do something like this:

Code: Select all

. . . . . . S S S . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . B . . G . . . G . . S . .
. G . . T . . . . . B . . G .

Typically this would result in LOS knockdowns followed by flooding through the middle, marking (or not) of the speedier players, and an easy stall.

The alternative would be to use the TGs up front (since they're not fast enough to help in the backfield anyway), thus freeing up some speed to chase elves down as needed.

I have also seen defenses along these lines:

Code: Select all

. . . . . G . S . G . . . .
. G S . B . . S . . B . S G .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . T . . . . . . .

This would be ill-advised vs Frenzy (personally I would take a -2d frenzy if it meant getting a TG off the field, with no armour roll), and not great on a Quick Snap, but might be decent vs elves, esp if they lack Guard/+ST. Lots of ifs.

Is there an answer here, or is it down to the fact that Khemri have a tough time vs elves, so take lots of Tackle?

My team is second-year, with 13 games, 3 skilled TGs (MB/G, MB, G), Blitz-Ras (MB, MB/T), Throw-Ras (B/T, +MA/D), and skellies (B, B, DP, rook*3), 14 total players. But I'm really interested more in general tactics than team-specific advice.

Thanks,
Fidius

[SunDevil]

I hear the Blood Bowl podcast, Three Die Block, has two good Khemri episodes.

[voyagers_uk]

Chance, you could provide some one on one advice... Pretend you are at camp!

[SunDevil]

Chance, you could provide some one on one advice... Pretend you are at camp!

Pretend I'm at camp...man, you really are a fan of the show!

I play Khemri in a way that some would find boring but it has worked for me. They start out very strong with all that high ST but you cannot rely on it! Decay, no G-access 'bigs', brittle linos and ballcarriers, over-prices blitzers...the team's drawbacks go on and on. So you have to reinforce their natural advantage (raw ST) at every turn.

Guardians and Blitz-Ras all take Guard and Mighty Blow as first two skills. I like to go back and forth - one gets Guard, next gets MiB, next gets Guard, etc. One of each for the Blitz-Ras, then the other, etc. This will help your Guardians get 3DBs early and often and your Blitz-Ras should be supporting them. All doubles (including +ST) on the Guardians is Block, then Dodge or skip for S skills. Blitz-Ras could potentially take Dodge or Jump Up, but not until third skill or beyond. You NEED the blue-collar, boring skills. BRs do take +ST of course, but no other stat boost. Tackle is later and, yes, that puts you in a hole against Elves. Just kill the LineElves and roll lots of dice against the Blodgers. You have to plan long term here.

Any Skel double is Guard or +ST. Regular is Block and at least TWO Dirty Players. I like a Kick/Dirty Player as, ideally, you should only be kicking once or twice a game. The Kick skill is not for you to get a Blitz and score but to make your opponent run players back for the ball, again, increasing your ST advantage at midpitch. You should be fouling most every turn until the ref wakes up and throw you out.

That said, Khemri play at midpitch a LOT. Do not over-pursue. Move forward as a line, do not let players behind you if you can help it. With enough Guard you will overpower Chaos, Orcs, Dwarves, everyone. And you HAVE to because they all have better skills and Armor overall plus Claw, etc. Khemri play a combo of 'zone' and 'man' defense in that they want to cover across the pitch width-wise (zone) but they usually do it in contact with opponents (man-to-man).

Do not regret the team's slowness - embrace it. They are eternal, inevitable, they should slowly tighten around the opposing forces like a noose or the inescapable flow of sands through the hourglass of time. Revel in the turns you spend only moving a few spaces, covering, getting good blocks, slowly whittling your enemies' numbers down and grinding them into dust.

Sure, sometimes Elves will get past you and score. Some bash teams will out muscle you with their fancy skills and armor. But you are focused on the long game. Slow and steady is this team's mantra.

Many teams have different approaches to playing against agile teams (dash) or the bruising teams (bash) but not Khemri. They play a deadly version of "Red Rover" - lined up across the pitch, backing each other up with Guard and fouls and Mighty Blow and daring opponents to "come over". Some will, just make sure you make them pay for it!

Not sure how much help this was but it was fun to write! I say most of this stuff in the second Khemri episode and I do think there is more useful Khemri advice there. But, yes, I am biased.

[burgun824]

Very well written SunDevil.

I agree with everything you said with the exception that IF it's a perpetual league I MIGHT consider taking Mighty Blow as the first skill on all TGs in an effort to try and skill them faster.

You have to weigh your options on that though as guard will get you more 3d blocks.

[SunDevil]

Very well written SunDevil.

I agree with everything you said with the exception that IF it's a perpetual league I MIGHT consider taking Mighty Blow as the first skill on all TGs in an effort to try and skill them faster.

You have to weigh your options on that though as guard will get you more 3d blocks.

I hear you there. If your league does not have a lot of 4ST (Lizards, Orcs, Chaos) then by all means take all the Mighty Blow you can early!

[voyagers_uk]

Fan of the show...? Guilty as charged. All the podcasts add to the hobby immeasurably and keep us fresh with ideas for the pitch... Well maybe not the all skink build but you know what I mean. Thanks for going into such detail it was valuable even if I feel about Khemri as you do about elves

Thanks Chance

[SunDevil]

Fan of the show...? Guilty as charged. All the podcasts add to the hobby immeasurably and keep us fresh with ideas for the pitch... Well maybe not the all skink build but you know what I mean. Thanks for going into such detail it was valuable even if I feel about Khemri as you do about elves

Thanks Chance

Hey, that all-Skink build won a Stunty Cup at GenCon Bowl a few years ago, coached by Pauly.

I enjoy all the casts as well, especially on road trips.

One of the things I hate about Elves is there are too many teams that are too similar. At least Khemri is unique! And that is how we transition back on topic...

[voyagers_uk]

A dry and dusty segue indeed

[Digger Goreman]

.... I feel about Khemri as you do about elves

Me, too, believe it or not.... Play them 'cause they segue with the undead that segue with my Necros... though nowadays I seem to play Necros and Vamps more than anything.... Nevertheless, if it's a fromage free for all, then bringing the cheese to fight cheese is a go.... Therefore, very glad to read the wisdom in this thread....

[SunDevil]

When is Khemri ever cheese? They seem so limited, so NOT easy to min/max that I have a hard time imagining a scenario where they are the cheese, the team everyone is tired of facing...

Worst AG in BB, Decay (x4), no Claw/Mutations access, no regular AG access, 7AV almost everywhere, team average 5MV or so, no G access on their 'bigs'...I find the Khemri extremely balanced, even overly so in that they never truly excel.

Which is why I love 'em.

[Digger Goreman]

Well, there is cheese and there is cheese.... Khemri is rather one dimensional and seeks to slaughter through your opponents team while rarely playing the ball.... It is most useful to do, as I coincidentally did today, to wipe out the other team and grind them into dust... only then could I "outball" the opposition.... Khemri is a destroyer and, as mentioned here, should be optimized to do so... really not being built/buildable for anything else....

Is it as bad as any of the dwelves? Rarely....

The dichotomy of extremes I see in BB is avoidance teams (generally ag4/equivalence in starting skills), and highly armored bashing.... An old FUMBBL article on Why Necros Don't Make the Finals really speaks to this....

Now having played a handful of games (as opposed to the hundreds you can log on FUMBBL) I can still say that my future "handful of games" opponents are in trouble: 3/4 TGs now have mighty blow and a BR and TR will be getting their first skills also... so I'm happily taking in your article to improve my team/game....

To reiterate: in a world of dwelves and spam, khemri is nearly "non-fat" on the cheese scale....

(btw, decay and niggles are a joke on AV9+....)

[mattgslater]

I strongly disagree. In my experience, Khemri are as much of a control team as most bash teams are. Yes, that means playing the numbers game, but as both teams lose bodies a lack of mobility becomes a serious problem. Khemri are much more a thinking-man's team than most heavy squads.

[Digger Goreman]

Happy to hear it!

[SunDevil]

I strongly disagree. In my experience, Khemri are as much of a control team as most bash teams are. Yes, that means playing the numbers game, but as both teams lose bodies a lack of mobility becomes a serious problem. Khemri are much more a thinking-man's team than most heavy squads.

I agree 100%.

I hope I didn't give the impression that they bash only and do not need to play control. They control by getting good blocks but positioning (as in not letting players get behind you, ensuring uphill blocks for your opponent) speak to their control slant.

Khemri can not rely on killing all menz, but they love the stuns and KOs just as well during their standard 8-turn drives.

PS - Matt, check out the UW vs Dorf post I just made. You might love all the Stand Firm...