Fun team(s) to play vs. Orcs, some help needed

[JaM]

Hi all,

If you would play most of your games vs. Orcs, and you'd be starting in a new league (just like he Orcs), what team would you consider?
We will be using 'chosen' MVPs, thus making it more likely that specific players will skill up (like BOBs, or Flesh golems).

I've been playing with high Elfs for a while now, having had my dose of AG4.

I've been thinking of one of these:

Underworld
Slann
Nurgle
Khemri (I mean, why not..?).

I'd like to avoid 'killer builds' on teams, the 'CPOMB' style of some CPact teams in FUMMBLE is not really for me.
Winning the game by killing your opponents team might be fun, but not for me, on TT. In this league.

Arguments for, against these teams? Other, more interesting teams I've been forgetting? PLease help!

Cheers,

JaM

[Shteve0]

Slann are great vs Orcs, I've found them to be a really enjoyable matchup ( once you get a couple of skills on the board). Id recommend Smeborg's Pond Scum build for this, ie no blitzers or krox, get block on catchers and wrestle on linos, plus take guard every doubles.



Good luck!

[Digger Goreman]

If you've really had your dose of ag 4, leave the crutches behind.... Khemi if you want to slug it with the orcs.... For me, I have a lot of success with Necros vs Orcs....

[babass]

A league with Choosen-MVP will be a great format for Orcs (because of the black orcs who stay normaly rookie too long in a regular league...)

in the rosters list you selected, i think it's a good format for Slanns (in order to a skilled linemen team), and for Nurgle (the warrior are super-black orcs...), but nurgle are not that good against orcs (in particular if you are not building CPoMB players...)
Slanns are efficient against slow and heavy teams (like orcs)

i would consider Necro. they are great against Orcs (claws), and the choosen-MVP will help you to skill fast the Golems and the Wrights (you needed asap 4 guards...)

[Rolex]

With Chosen Mvp (an house rule I deeply despise) I would take Khemri without a second thought.
Very funny against orcs (non from the orcs POV of course) and take the most advantage out of chosen MVP since TG are amorg the hardest players to skill.

Slann are not very good against orcs. What slanns fear the most are teams that play all in base contact forcing them to make lots and lots of 3+ rolls.
The key is no AG 3 slann must be unmarked. If they fail one of the first rolls of the turn they get butchered.
Orcs and amazons are very good at it forcing a lot 2d uphill blocks (I think I got a perfect record with both against slann).
In my experience the no krox no blitzer build in particular in the worst against orcs.
It can get lucky (slann are unpredictable) but it must be very lucky.

Very developed slann can tell another story, but he's beginning the league..
If his opponents know slann and how to play against them he might not have a developed (or alive) team for a long time.
I find part of the strenght of the slann is that most coaches don't know how to deal with them.

[Overhamsteren]

Not that I find lizardmen fun in general but against orcs you can't easily dominate with the saurus and just grind the opponent down so could be fun perhaps. And it's another ag1 option for the chosen MVP.

Guess dwarfs/chaos dwarfs are the same, pretty unfun teams in general but probably good fun against orcs.

[JaM]

Thanks for all those ideas, they help.

Rolex: We're currently trying it out, chosen MVP. If it works for us all, it'll stay. For now, it's on.

We're all 'beginning' new teams, .. that is, I am, a friend of mine too (Orcs) and another coach who's slowly returning to the game after a long time. He also has an Orc team, with 3-4 games behind his belt. He didnt get much SPPs though, and since he only has 2 BOBs and, IIRC, also 2 blitzers (yes, we told him it was a bad/not exactly optimal idea)...

They both never faced Slann. I did play against Slann, what,... 2 times? In a tournament. So there will be a learning curve for me.
I am thinking of NOT taking any (Slann)blitzers, maybe add them later to the team.

No love for Underworld here? Or is it just a bad match-up in all aspects?

And, if I would take Necro, what roster?

[Digger Goreman]

And, if I would take Necro, what roster?

(Un-)Living Necro-Tacticum

Pages 3, 5 and 6 for quick answers, though the whole thread is great....

(ah, I see you were briefly part of that thread)

Start with how many rerolls you wish to use... this will dictate your build....

If you want 3 rerolls, then:

21k for 3 rerolls
18k for 2 wights
22k for 2 flesh golems
20k for 5 zombies
07k for 1 ghoul
12k for 1 werewolf
-----
100k

If you want all the positionals to start:

07k for 1 reroll
18k for 2 wights
22k for 2 flesh golems
12k for 3 zombies
14k for 2 ghouls
24k for 2 werewolves
03k discretionary
-----
100k

[Rolex]

Starting with no blitzers is a must.
You need a LOT of RR and at very least 3 catchers if not 4.
But you need at least 2 blitzer soon. Guard bltzers help a lot.
Without them you'll be beaten up. A lot.

I dislike chosen MVP because it messes up the balance of the game. A lot.
Some teams get a huge boost out of it, which removes one of their main weaknesses.
It moves the game in favour of heavy teams.
Your league has a lot of orcs.
Would so much people have chosen orcs (or khemri, or Lizardmen, or dwarves or CD) without chosen MVP?
Maybe... Maybe not.

Most people likes it easy. So chosen MVP is popular.
So popular that people can't (or won't) see it is very very bad for the game, especially in the long run.
After a few seasons your teams will have less and less in common with teams in a proper league.
That is just another game. I call it Farm Bowl.

Everyone is free to play the way they prefer, of course.

[Dr. Von Richten]

Necros all the way! or Underworld, they are cool too!

Necros, go with Digger's first setup (the 3 RR, 1 Wolf, 1 Ghoul one), Underworld: All positionals, 4 goblins, 4 rerolls.

Out of curiosity, who are you playing against?

[JaM]

Would so much people have chosen orcs (or khemri, or Lizardmen, or dwarves or CD) without chosen MVP?

Yes. One player doesnt know, yet (he played them when we still rolled), the other just wants to play something else, also on tournaments, and thus selected Orcs.

RvR: Marco will play Orcs (Snotty), the other one is Servaes, you dont know him. I mean, the odds that you have spoken/seen him before are very, very small. Non-existant, really .

@Rolex: I see your point, and tend to agree. But since we dont play a lot, and building the team is a lot of fun, we'll probably stick with it, for now. I know it's inbalanced, but hey... We've been using the DZ cards for YEARS and only recently went with the inducements from the CRaP. AS we see it, it's an experiment and if we see gross imbalances, i.e. takes the fun out of the game for us, we'll change back. No harm, no foul, right?

I'll see if I can dig up an 'old' Necro team, stats and skills included. Might start with Underworld and, later on, switch to the Necros.
I do have an UW team ready with a guard vermin + leader thrower, 4RRs and all. Got that all in 1 game, with random MVP .

Time to look at some teamsheets I think.


Thanks for all the feedback!

[JaM]

I'll take them both .

As in, I will continue with the Underworld vs. the 'new old' player, and will restart with Necros vs the other.
My 'old' Necro team had a TV of 1400, a bit to much I think.

This will give me the chance to experiment a bit with both teams, and makes sure that the opposition doesnt face 'just' Orcs and Necromantics.

[Smeborg]

Slann are simply outstanding against Orcs, if all you want to do is win.

[Dr. Von Richten]

RvR: Marco will play Orcs (Snotty), the other one is Servaes, you dont know him. I mean, the odds that you have spoken/seen him before are very, very small. Non-existant, really .

Aha!

Well, bring them to Utrecht (as well as doing your own thin, of course)! More people is more varied opponents, and we got a new player (Vera/Shizentai, you met her at the DO), and DrunkenDwarf of course, so your dude Servaes will have some inexperienced opposition too!

[JaM]

RvR: Marco will play Orcs (Snotty), the other one is Servaes, you dont know him. I mean, the odds that you have spoken/seen him before are very, very small. Non-existant, really .

Aha!

Well, bring them to Utrecht (as well as doing your own thin, of course)! More people is more varied opponents, and we got a new player (Vera/Shizentai, you met her at the DO), and DrunkenDwarf of course, so your dude Servaes will have some inexperienced opposition too!

I've met Vera at the DO, and last Thursday (she played amazons vs Orcs IIRC, Orcs being used by Sebastiaan). And not all of us are so... dedicated that they will travel to Utrecht now and then just to play a game..!

I'll ask them, of course, but I am afraid it's not going to happen very soon. It's just the way it is I suppose.