Subjective question on "cheating" within a tournament

Gaixo · Post by **Gaixo** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:41 pm

In a recent tournament, it was discovered that a player had been running a Chaos dwarf in place of a hobgoblin (he paid for 5 blockers and 3 hobgoblins, but was using 6/2). This wasn't discovered until halftime during the final round, during which the team in question was playing on the top table and was ahead by a point. Three lower tables could have benefited from a tied result.

For the record, the coach in question is simply not the type to cheat on purpose, was using the team for the very first time (and only had the extra models on-hand because his painter had met him at the event to hand it off), and was visibly dismayed by the fact that he might have disrupted the event. He was comfortable accepting a forfeit and/or forgoing the trophy.

How would you handle it?

Rolex · Post by **Rolex** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:19 pm

Player plays the second half with the correct roster.
After that he gets moved down the final standings: either to the first position where he wins nothing or to the bottom of the standings.

If you play with a incorrect roster it is not only your fault for the mistake, but it is also your opponent fault (a BIG fault) for not checking.
What has been played stays played.
But of course he wins nothing.

The players that played against him and didn't check get a special shaming as well (in a funny way).

My opinion.

Post by **lunchmoney** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:24 pm

Rolex wrote:Player plays the second half with the correct roster.
After that he gets moved down the final standings: either to the first position where he wins nothing or to the bottom of the standings.

If you play with a incorrect roster it is not only your fault for the mistake, but it is also your opponent fault (a BIG fault) for not checking.
What has been played stays played.
But of course he wins nothing.

The players that played against him and didn't check get a special shaming as well (in a funny way).

My opinion.

+1, especially the bit about all the opponents missing it as well.

babass · Post by **babass** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:29 pm

Imo. Every coach should have a look on the roster of his opponent... at least at the 1st round of the tourney.
If no one noticed the error, he should be consider as innocent (in particular because it's the very first time it occurs with him)...
In your case, you discovered this error very late=> shame of all the opponent of this coach...

We could have same kind of thinking when a coach plays a drive with 12 players (this kind of mistake could happen easyly with halfling without cheating...)
Please count the number of players on the pitch of your opponent team...

Post by **lunchmoney** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:55 pm

I dont think it was a roster issue, from reading the OP, it was the coach using 6 CDs when only 5 were on the roster. The roster was probably correct, but no one noticed the extra CD who crept onto the pitch, hiding under a big hat

Gaixo · Post by **Gaixo** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:17 pm

Right...the roster had been checked and was correct. The issue was that the team on the field didn't match that roster.

TheDancingClown · Post by **TheDancingClown** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:38 pm

Trying to think of a real life tournament in which something similar has happened. In recent hockey world cup, Argentina fielded an extra player for a few minutes against England which was only noticed after the game so no action was taken after England's appeal. However if the extra player was noticed by officials during the game, the offending team's captain would have been sent off and Argentina play with 10 for the rest of the game.

So perhaps no action for the previous games, as others said it is opponents fault for not noticing. For the final game the coach has a player sent off (maybe of the other coach's choosing?)

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:00 pm

I'm assuming there's nothing written in the tournaments rule pack? I'd consider this to be the same as playing with an incorrect roster (which I have written into mine).

Gaixo · Post by **Gaixo** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:34 pm

But with your solution, in which you immediately end the game in a forfeit, do you not feel that you are doing everyone else in the tournament a disservice by giving one coach a free win? In this particular situation it would have given the other coach the top spot in the tournament. I suppose the trade-off is that they team being forfeited to don't get to potentially run up their touchdowns and casualties for tiebreakers?

Rolex · Post by **Rolex** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:29 pm

Ending the game in a forfeit is a baaad idea.
It gives a prize to the other player for not checking.
It might even encourage him, if he notices the mistake at the beginning of the game, to keep his mouth shut and "notice" it later to be awarded a free win! (I'm Italian: I always think the worst of everyone...

)

Both players are responsable of the correct set up.
Best choice is to go on from that point (with the correct team) and exclude afterwards the player who made the mistake from the winning spots.

Anyway I think any decision you take will be fair and perfect. (Because I'm a NTC and it seems sensible to suck up to my next boss.

)

Gaixo · Post by **Gaixo** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:53 pm

Well, I made him play the 2nd half with 3 blockers and 4 hobgoblins as penance, and also disqualified him from contention for any trophies. I thought I might have been too lenient, but it sounds like most of you would have been more easygoing.

Rolex · Post by **Rolex** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:23 pm

It is not about being lenient with him.
It's about not being lenient with his opponent for not checking.

You might have thought that, since he played at a disadvantage in the first half, he deserved an advantage in the second.
I think he did not. The disadvantage he suffered in the first half is almost as much his fault as his opponent.
So IMHO he deserved no advantage in the second half.

Once you disqualify the guy who made the mistake from any prize or you place him last you are not being lenient.
He already has gained nothing.
Anyone who played at a disadvantage against him has learned a valuable lesson: always check.

MattDakka · Post by **MattDakka** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:37 am

Rolex wrote: (I'm Italian: I always think the worst of everyone... )

The Italians are like Skaven: paranoid, distrustful, sneaky and opportunistic.

TalonBay · Post by **TalonBay** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:55 am

MattDakka wrote:
Rolex wrote: (I'm Italian: I always think the worst of everyone... )
The Italians are like Skaven: paranoid, distrustful, sneaky and opportunistic.

...and cool!

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