Cyanide releases their Khorne Roster

[Rolex]

17-6-10 for me with 2 finals in 3 years.

Playing Khorne is a total different game than anything else.
What you think you know about BB does not help.
Being nuts helps (and I am).

That why I love them and I wouldn't want them any different.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

The only way I would change them is renaming the players to make it not so much of a fluff abomination. I think it's fine to have a crappy frenzy team.

[connexion]

a fluff abomination

That's the aspect that never really made or broke a team/roster for me. Sure,a "shared universe" is a very nice thing to have (think common cultural background, references, etc) but it's not essential and, IMHO, should not be determinant on the creation of a roster/team. See definition of fluff.

That being said, when the Khorne roster came out, I tried it and found it to be quite challenging. To bash-oriented for my taste but, nevertheless, something different (à la Slann).

Wish it would become NAF-sanctioned...

[Fassbinder75]

The only way I would change them is renaming the players to make it not so much of a fluff abomination. I think it's fine to have a crappy frenzy team.

"The Pit Fighters block like Pit Fighters!", Jimmy Fantastic responds in an arrogant tone, "Pit Fighters? Who ever heard of a Pit Fighter?". Cyanide grabs his cheeks and gently replies, "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."

[dode74]

It seems to me that your experience - like mine - is that the Khorne team performs below average.

The data from several thousand games shows that the Khorne team has a win% slap bang in the middle of Tier1.5 both in leagues and in MM (the dataset for MM is larger than for leagues, but the data for leagues still has both the high and low 95CI margins of error inside the 40-50% range), which is where we were aiming. Be that down to luck or down to Tom's ability at designing teams is not relevant.

[Smeborg]

Playing Khorne is a total different game than anything else.
What you think you know about BB does not help.
Being nuts helps (and I am).

That why I love them and I wouldn't want them any different.

I also quite like the Khorne team and see no reason to change anything. The "Fluff!" seems to annoy some people (not me), so by all means change that if you will (position names, for example). Pit Fighters are familiar to me from GW's Mordheim game (there used to be a variety of figurines too), and I agree that the Linos do indeed fight like Pit Fighters...

I am doing quite a bit better than expected with Khorne, but that is after a season of learning the hard way. They are a team that play quite differently to other teams, thus they will reward coaches who like a challenge, but equally, they will frustrate coaches who try to play them in the style of one or more existing teams. Development, especially early development, is quite a challenge, and does not follow typical paths. It will take time and effort for any coach to work out a style of play and development strategy that work for him.

I don't see the team as over-powered in a league, as they are priced a little on the high side (correctly IMO), and lack endurance against bash opponents. I suspect the team would be quite good in some tournament formats (but not all). I find their games quite sporting, and I think my opponents feel the same. Thus I see them as a good addition to the game.

Hope that helps.

[plasmoid]

Hi Guys,
uhm - could we not do the fluff argument (yet) Again. It really wasn't what I was asking.

@Rolex: I know you've done well them. I also know you do well with everything. I remember you telling me you recently won 3 tournaments in a row
Either way, my question wasn't whether you do well with them., but whether you do less with them than with other tier 1 teams.

@Smeborg. Thanks. They Again it would be interesting to know what "better than expected Means".

@Dode: In the middle of 1.5 sound a lot like close to 45%. Which is lovely. Unless you want something closer to 50%
But you seem to have hit your target, and that's good.

Cheers all
Martin

[dode74]

It is almost exactly 45% (as a mean) in OCC, with the 95CI range being inside the T1.5 range. Data will be sent to you, as per the PM.

I think you and I discussed possible buffs before.

• Cheaper RR is the easiest one (helps with all the Frenzy, useful at low TV mainly).
• +ST on the Heralds was another one which we considered (not liked as it marginalises the Thirster a little and the cost increase screws up low-TV tournament rosters, but is a good buff at any TV)
• Regen on the Bloodletters was another consideration (again the cost increase was the reason for not doing it, but would be good long-term due to increased survivability).

I'm not a massive fan of improving the Thirster. He's already an incredible player, and Leap/VLL isn't much use at his AG while his new increased cost with any further buffs would make him prohibitive at low TV.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Giving Pit Fighters Strength access on normals could be a nice buff. Certainly makes more sense than Passing...
+ST and/or Regen on the Heralds are also good options, as well as lowering RR cost, ofc.

[dode74]

S access on pit fighters will turn them into another bash team, which was not the intent at all. Personally I think that the last thing the game needs is another all-S access team.

[MattDakka]

S access on pit fighters will turn them into another bash team, which was not the intent at all. Personally I think that the last thing the game needs is another all-S access team.

While I agree that the game doesn't need another bash team, I strongly disagree that a Khorne-themed team should not be a bash team.
A not bashing Daemons of Khorne team is a fluff heresy and an antilogy.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Well it doesn't really matter what you intended, as I am pretty sure this is discussing what Plasmoid would do to them for NTBB.
You may not want them to be a bash team, but that is what they are(albeit a poor, somewhat unique one).
And as Matt correctly points out, if any team in BB would be a pure bash team it would be Khorne, but as I said before I am trying to ignore the horrific fluff and thinking purely mechanically.

[voyagers_uk]

Do you hear that Dode, you got it wrong! Wrong I tells ya.

[dode74]

While I agree that the game doesn't need another bash team, I strongly disagree that a Khorne-themed team should not be a bash team.
A not bashing Daemons of Khorne team is a fluff heresy and an antilogy.

There's bashing and there's bashing. As Jimmy says they are a bash team, although in an odd way. With so much Frenzy they are potentially able to roll more block dice than any other team (both a boon and a curse), but they are not a pure strength bash team - i.e. they do not rely on MB and PO to cause the cas. That's what I mean by not intending them to be a bash team - the traditional sort.

Well it doesn't really matter what you intended, as I am pretty sure this is discussing what Plasmoid would do to them for NTBB.

Indeed. Perhaps he should ignore all the intentions for every team and make Flings an S team and Chaos a pure fouling team with no S access? Or perhaps he's actually trying to stick to the feel of each team while altering performance, an aim which would require knowledge of the original intent behind the teams.

I am trying to ignore the horrific fluff and thinking purely mechanically.

Which is what we tried to do with the fluff we were given. Thinking purely from a game mechanics standpoint, the last thing the game needs is another all-S access team.

Do you hear that Dode, you got it wrong! Wrong I tells ya.

[voyagers_uk]

Gotta love Swope