Team value, inducements & petty cash

[Anacron]

So this came up yesterday in our local league match.

The TV difference between my goblins and spleggy's dark elves was 220k in my favour. He declined to spend any of his own treasury on inducements, which meant it was my turn to pick them.

I went for Nobbla Blackwart and a bribe, which left 40k in inducements. I transferred 10k from my treasury, and used that to help purchase another bribe.

This is the way I've played inducements for ever (since I started playing BB in about 2004) and no opponent has had an issue with it. However spleggy pointed out that we (or well, I) should have transferred extra inducement spending money from treasury to petty cash first, and petty cash adds to TV. But this would mean the underdog transferring extra treasury cash would be completely pointless, as for every 10k extra you transfer (to spend on inducements) your TV difference decreases by 10k, making no overall difference in the amount of inducement cash available.

Having looked through the CRP (p24 of the PDF, which is marked as p28 on the footer) it looks like he may be correct and I just never read that bit properly! Or possibly something changed between when I started BB and the latest CRP. In the event we did it my way, because the other way makes no logical sense to me whatsoever, but it would be good to figure out for future league matches if this was wrong.

Slightly related, the first of the NAF clarifications seems wrong to me on reading the rules, as the CRP states the overdog must purchase their inducements first. It doesn't seem to allow for purchasing more inducements later if the overdog has now become the underdog.

[dode74]

He is basically correct, but you're both technically incorrect since you should transfer to petty cash before either of you choose inducements.

As per CRP page 28, the high TV team transfers gold to petty cash, then the low TV team does. After that you will both have a new TV (normal TV + transferred gold). At that point the now-higher TV team purchases his inducements (if he can), then the low TV team does so.

With your example, assuming you were 1400 and him 1620 (randomly selected numbers with the right difference), the correct order would be:
He adds gold, chooses 0GP, TV is 1620
You add gold, choose 10GP, TV is 1410
He is higher TV, he has no petty cash, so he buys no inducements.
You have 10GP and 210TV difference, so you get an additional 210GP to make up the difference. You can spend 220GP on inducements.

The above would also answer your "clarifications" question, I think.

[GalakStarscraper]

As per CRP page 28, the high TV team transfers gold to petty cash, then the low TV team does. After that you will both have a new TV (normal TV + transferred gold). At that point the now-higher TV team purchases his inducements (if he can), then the low TV team does so.

Dode has this correct.

Petty Cash is not meant to help the underdog at all.

And yes Petty Cash is not a great rule ... it put in by someone having a bit of an massive ego trip and breaking his own rules that had put in place for the 2 previous years to do so.

[Anacron]

So really, transferring extra cash for inducements is only useful for the overdog. We'll play it right next time then, thanks!

[dode74]

So really, transferring extra cash for inducements is only useful for the overdog. We'll play it right next time then, thanks!

Generally speaking, although it can be useful if you're the underdog by not much. If, say, there's a 20TV difference and you as the underdog want a Babe then you could spend the cash and he'd get no inducement money.

[straume]

Best way to use this is as underdog. 80K underdog? Put in 150K for the wizard and only give away a babe. Or put in 100K to get a bribe and give away nothing.

[Regash]

So really, transferring extra cash for inducements is only useful for the overdog. We'll play it right next time then, thanks!

Generally speaking, although it can be useful if you're the underdog by not much. If, say, there's a 20TV difference and you as the underdog want a Babe then you could spend the cash and he'd get no inducement money.

Maybe I'm making a mistake here but I've just been reading and re-reading page 28 of the Icepelt-CRP, concerning the inducements.

If you have a disadvantage of 20TV and are the underdog but choose to move 30K to petty cash, by the time it comes to buying inducements, you no longer are the underdog because you now have a 10TV advantage! And that would mean you could only spend the 30K from your petty cash, which buys exactly nothing.

Here is the quote from the rulebook:

PRE-MATCH SEQUENCE OF PLAY
The pre-match sequence must be used before every league match that is played. The sequence is split into three separate steps that are described below:

1. The Weather
Both coaches roll a D6 and add the results together and consult the Weather table (see page 20) to see what the weather will be like for the match.

2. Transfer Gold from Treasury to Petty Cash
Both teams at this point may transfer gold pieces from their team treasury into petty cash. Petty cash may be used during the current match to purchase inducements and adds directly to the team value of the team for this match. The team with the highest team value must declare how much gold he is transferring into petty cash first.

3. Inducements
Teams that are at a disadvantage are often given ‘inducements’ to play that will help even the odds. Usually this takes the form of extra gold, offered by the stadium owner to help convince a team
to take part in a match against a superior opponent (and thus allowing the stadium owner to recoup his losses and more through tickets sales and merchandise!).

To represent this, an underdog in a match may be given a certain amount of gold that can be used to buy things for the team to help them in the upcoming match. The amount of gold the team receives is equal to the difference between the total value of the underdog team and the total value of the opposing team.

[Loki]

Exactly, the starting underdog puts 50k (not the 30k) in to get a babe, the starting overdog now has 30k to spend but you can't spend 30k (rather than it being no money at all).

[dode74]

So really, transferring extra cash for inducements is only useful for the overdog. We'll play it right next time then, thanks!

Generally speaking, although it can be useful if you're the underdog by not much. If, say, there's a 20TV difference and you as the underdog want a Babe then you could spend the cash and he'd get no inducement money.

Maybe I'm making a mistake here but I've just been reading and re-reading page 28 of the Icepelt-CRP, concerning the inducements.

If you have a disadvantage of 20TV and are the underdog but choose to move 30K to petty cash, by the time it comes to buying inducements, you no longer are the underdog because you now have a 10TV advantage! And that would mean you could only spend the 30K from your petty cash, which buys exactly nothing.

Correct. When I said "spend the cash" I meant you would have to spend 50k to get the babe. This would leave your opponent insufficient inducement money to buy anything.

Rereading, my last sentence that you quoted made that unclear. Apologies.