Oi Galak! (or anyone else!)

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 3:03 pm

I just dont see the risks being equal to the possible bennies. I will stay with a dp i guess.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:41 am

sean newboy wrote:Question to whomever made up those rules. How many Necromantic coaches are going to bother giving a chainsaw to a zombie? I really dont see the point of even adding the option.

Its fun

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:34 am

Does the Deathroller no longer have Stand Firm on purpose or is it a Typo?

R

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:48 am

Redfang wrote:Does the Deathroller no longer have Stand Firm on purpose or is it a Typo?

R

Typo ... now fixed.

Galak

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:24 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
1) Only lineman may have secret weapons. Lineman are defined as the 0-12 or 0-16 position on any roster. Chaos Dwarves are the only exception to this rule as both the Hobgoblin and Chaos Dwarf positions can use secret weapons.

4) Players with secret weapons become VERY attached to them and as such will never take the field without them.

Ok, these are two points that I strongly disagree with.

1) I loved the freedom that the possibility of giving them to any player gave. I however realise what are the motives behind this change (the fear of possible SW abuse by positional players), but I don't think that sufficient proof has been given that this would be the case. I'd give them more playtest time before implementing this restriction.

4) I just can't see any reason for this restriction! It makes perfect sense to wait for the important drive before fielding the weapon, or to leave the weapon to the dugout when the team definitely wants no-one to be sent off anymore.
Could someone enlight me what is the reason behind this apart from a kneejerk reflex?

Goblin teams and weapons just seem to go hand and hand, the the evil blighters always seem to find more no matter how many are confiscated. At the beginning of every game, the Goblin team rolls a D6 to see if they procured (ie built/stolen) a free secret weapon. Use the following table:
1-No free weapon, 2-Ball & Chain, 3-Pogo Stick, 4-Bomb, 5-Chainsaw, 6-Coach's Choice
The Goblin coach is not required to give a player the free weapon found, but if he does it is treated just like he had purchased the weapon.

Very nice :=)
Especially as it is very close to what I suggested for goblin teams in september.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:38 pm

Mestari wrote: 1) I loved the freedom that the possibility of giving them to any player gave. I however realise what are the motives behind this change (the fear of possible SW abuse by positional players), but I don't think that sufficient proof has been given that this would be the case.

Pariah disclaimer: The opinions I am about to give are based on the MBBL2, a PBeM league using house rules that has played 2 leagues seasons totaling 15 games since it started.

Mestari in the MBBL2, I allow SWs to positionally players (but ONLY weapon per a team). One of the highest scorers of all time is Poisoned Dagger Gutter Runner. You thought Stiff Arm was abusive for players .... poisoned dagger on GRs makes Stiff Arm look like a 80 pound weakling. Also I've had one Poisoned Dagger Rat Ogre which means the player never had to make a two-dice opponent choice block. Its not knee-jerk at least from what I've seen.

4) I just can't see any reason for this restriction! It makes perfect sense to wait for the important drive before fielding the weapon, or to leave the weapon to the dugout when the team definitely wants no-one to be sent off anymore.

I think this is an ease of use thing .... weapons are basically freebooted now. If you are concerned about losing the player don't field him until the right moment. I have Snotling team with a Pump Wagon ... think Deathroller ... I don't field it until I'm receiving the kickoff so I can get maximum use before the 7+ roll. I think the clean up this change does to the rules is well worth the minor ping to possible strategy.

Very nice :=)
Especially as it is very close to what I suggested for goblin teams in september.

Glad you like it. I think the Stunties will now have the "leg up" folks talked about. Halfling for the MBBL got the BB Mag #7 Chef and on-pitch Take Root ... Goblin get a free weapon roll each game. Nice fluffly ways to give them a little boost.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:34 pm

Clarification ... the free weapon for the Goblin is for the game only.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:45 pm

Is the on-pitch take root effect like the one that was floating around here sometime:

roll a D6 before any action, on a 1 the player takes root until the end of the drive. He is immobile (cannot move) and loses all his TZ, cannot be pushed back but can block and TTM/pass normaly. If he's knocked over, he un-roots???

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:14 pm

narkotic wrote:Is the on-pitch take root effect like the one that was floating around here sometime:

roll a D6 before any action, on a 1 the player takes root until the end of the drive. He is immobile (cannot move) and loses all his TZ, cannot be pushed back but can block and TTM/pass normaly. If he's knocked over, he un-roots???

A little worse ... if he roots he loses the ability to take ANY actions for the rest of the drive (including standing if knocked down) and has not TZ for the rest of the drive. The BBRC members I ran it past felt the can still block and TTM was a little too good.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:20 pm

???This is a mystery to me.

Not only it makes no sense in fluff, it's getting even worser than before. Removing them for half the game on a 4+ was hard (and hillairous cheap solution for a negatrait) but freezing them for a drive on a 1 ist even worse as you have to play with less players as you would have with the old take root.
I can understand the concerns about TTM but this solution is plain dumb.
why not changing the Treeman stats to Nil/5/0/10 when rooted or something like that.

I roll so many 1s during a match that I won't get any action done by the Treemennow...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:27 pm

narkotic wrote:Not only it makes no sense in fluff

Incorrect ... reread BB Mag #1. Its is a perfect match to the entire fluff in that article.

freezing them for a drive on a 1 ist even worse as you have to play with less players as you would have with the old take root.
I can understand the concerns about TTM but this solution is plain dumb.

As a full time Halfling coach ... I'll just disagree here. Having my trees all the time on the pitch and able to use Pro to reroll failed Take Roots is SIGNIFICANTLY better than having no Treeman until the 2nd half. If one falls into deep thought for the drive ... so be it ... but at least I was able to not have to field 3 Halflings on the LOS. This version of Take Root has a much better chance of becoming official and its still a nice minor bonus to the Flings.

If you are speaking from a Wood Elf perspective ... sorry but I could care less if this makes the Treeman suck for Wood Elves ... in fact that a big plus to me if it does.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:08 pm

I don't think pro is an argument, it helps all negatraits, like Leader does, and is an overall improvement for a player. You shouldn't argue that a negatrait is not that bad because you can re-roll it with pro (I'm not sure couldn't you re-roll the old take root with pro, too?)

Second, compared with Bonehead/Really Stupid this is many times worse, once you fail it, your player is removed from the drive.

I would feel beter if they could build in something like "in every turn the coach may try to wake up the Treeman, success on a 6+, add +1 for every adjacent player of four team. If the treeman wakes up, he may do nothing for that round"

BTW, I'm a friend of flings, and I do not like Wood Elfs

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:13 pm

narkotic wrote:I don't think pro is an argument, it helps all negatraits, like Leader does, and is an overall improvement for a player. You shouldn't argue that a negatrait is not that bad because you can re-roll it with pro (I'm not sure couldn't you re-roll the old take root with pro, too?)

Actually Pro and Leader where two of the biggest reason why this version of Take Root needed to be worded this way. The current LRB Take Root you cannot use Pro or Leader to reroll. Since these two skills are now available with a move to an on-pitch effect, the On-Pitch effect needs to be pretty bad for the Treeman to still be on par with where he is in the LRB already.

I start playing my Flings with this rule in about 3 to 4 weeks ... I'll let you know what I think after a few games.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:27 pm

Ok, I'm curious to listen...

I guess in the first place I do not understand why Treeman get punished so hard. Rat Ogres have WA bc they are agile and fast with access to mutations, Kroxigor and Ogres get Bonehead, and Trolls really stupid bc they are cheap.

Treeman are incredible slow and not agile at all, does STR6 justify such a harsh treatment?

Thetian · Post by **Thetian** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:27 pm

I can't believe I missed this thread. After seeing Galak mention it in another thread, I did a search on 'take root' to find it.

I have to agree with Narkotic here. From my experience playing 'flings, without the treemen on the field (1st half), my opponent takes his sweet time to score. He tries to rack up as many CAS as he can before scoring on turn 8. I sometimes have to resort to NOT standing players up to encourage him to go ahead and score. I'll take my chances with his players being removed from the game for fouling for no SPP gain.
With an unlucky die roll, my opponent will often get to do the same thing in the 2nd half.
Getting Pro isn't a really persuasive arguement. With this trait, pro is mandatory! Hardly a fun-filled team development choice. At least now, you agonize over giving the treeman block or pile-on. (BTW Pile-on gets you block faster)
I don't see many rookie treemen getting enough SPP to actually get Pro. They'll be spending too much time watching all their litte buddies getting creamed. Without of course a lucky MVP. I guess we'll find out in the next season of MBBL.