Why a general Discussion of Big Guys makes (no) sense:

Robotorz · Post by **Robotorz** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:58 pm

Hello,
Most discusions of teamroosters include a general discusion of the big guys. Always repeating the same pros and cons. Everyone repeats "I go for the mino", "Troll? Nah the Ogre is so much better" and so on.
I think that every Big Guy, as the Teams themselfs, has Pros and Cons. And Every Big Guy suits a diffrent way to play better than a other Big Guy.
So the discussion should not be "what Big Guy is better overall" but "Wich big guy suits this or that playing style better"

For example: You cant generaly say Realy Stupid is worse than Wild Animal because
-) Wild Animal and Realy Stupid both need players next to them at the end of your Turn (ok you can move a player later to the Troll but not to the Mino)
-)Wild animal causes Turnovers and Realy Stupid makes your Troll lose his tacklezone more often than you imagine. So both can cause a perfect defence (or offence) to break into pieces.

I am quite inexperienced in the use of big guys but:
A troll sucks up more damage than a Ogre
A Ogre is more reliable when on its own

On all of my Orcteams I got lots of casualitys and my starplayer black orcs got fouled way to often. Since I have the Troll I have much less problems, since the Troll gets all the attention and because of regeneration stays on the pitch much longer than any other big guy. Therefore I choose the Troll. (Having 1 Goblin around so I can dodge to him if the player next to him got Blitzed)

On the Chaos Team I needed something faster, and since i spread my players across the field (and they get sucked in enemy tackle zones a lot) so I took the Ogre being slightly more bright and reliable.

So I would find it great of everyone to post his experiences with Big Guys, what they can do well and what they are not suited for. And we have a "On-Topic" Topic for Big Guys.
Just a Idea

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:15 pm

Some big guys are clearly better than any other. The ogre automatically comes to mind. And it's not true that the troll soaks up more damage. The ogre actually stays longer on the pitch because thick skull is statistically much better than regeneration for staying on the field Especially when drives last 7 or 8 turns, as is typically the case for strength teams.

Yes, for some teams, playing style makes a certain big guy better than another. The perfect example is chaos dwarves, where a mino is pretty useless since chaos dwarves already have the perfect sweeper (bull centaur), but a troll on the line to help out the chaos dwarf blockers makes perfect sense.

However, that's a rare instance, and usually a big guy is simply better than another by himself, no matter what team they play for.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:57 pm

One thing I noticed that gets lost in all of the Big Guy debate is the Kroxigor. Personally, I think the Kroxigor is the best Big Guy out there, if you don't look at Throw Teammate.

All the same skills as an Ogre, but you swap TTM for Prehensile Tail, a quality Physical trait that is often overlooked because it doesn't have the raw kill power most folks like. On top of that, the Kroxigor swaps a point of MA for AG. Neither get used very often for Big Guys so this is likely a wash.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:02 pm

Zombie: There's also the psychological edge that Regeneration gives you. I've noticed that people foul the Ogre on my Human team much more often than they foul the Troll on my Orc team, mostly because they figure that the Regenerate has a good chance of keeping any serious injury from kicking in.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:30 pm

I suspect they foul the ogre more because he's much more important to your human team than the troll is to your orc team. That would be my reason anyway.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:45 pm

That would be my reasoning. Against a human team with an ogre, target the ogre, he is your worst st threat. Against an orc team, leave the troll, hit the blitzers because they are too versatile.

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:25 pm

What do you mean "ignoring throw team mate!". Thats all part of the equation!

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:28 pm

Only on certain teams, humans and dwarves use Ogres but the coaches dont use it as a reason for taking the Ogres.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:50 pm

BTW: What do Minotaurs have TTM for?

Agentrock · Post by **Agentrock** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:56 pm

Good point...none of the teams with access to the minotaur have a player that could be thrown...

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:06 pm

Chaos teams can freeboot right stuff star players (the pogo sticker and the chainsaw wielding loony)

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:45 am

Yeah, but another thing about TTM for minos is that the original (3rd edition) Mino Starplayer (Blackhoof) didn't even have it. Weren't the Rooky Big Guys meant to be toned down versions of those starplayers?

R

Democritus · Post by **Democritus** » Wed May 07, 2003 9:12 am

You haven't said anyting about the Treeman.

I think he is the best big guy. Only two draw backs, MA 2 and AG 1, is not too good. But ST 6, AV 10, mighty blow, Stand firm, thick skull, is great!

I personaly think that take root is the least negative skill a big guy can have. I think it is better to have a player on the field that you can trust, than a loose cannon that might end your turn or fail you when it counts.
Besides all treemen will play second half, but every other big guy will have problems even during second half.

Mortalman · Post by **Mortalman** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:07 am

They blatantly gave Minotaurs TTM because they wanted to give them always hungry and that only affects TTM!

I've currently got an Ogre and I'm thinking of swapping him for a troll once I find out what the effects of his recent serious injury are. I figured he's big and tough and thick skull will be used more often than regen so I'll go for the Ogre. For some reason though anyone who gets through his armour either stuns him or seriously injures him! He's been killed twice (apoth) and seriously injured loads of times but I've never been called upon to make a thick skull roll for him. Doubtless as soon as I get a troll he'll spend the game in the KO'd box, but I feel that's a preferable result.

Mortalman · Post by **Mortalman** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:08 am

They blatantly gave Minotaurs TTM because they wanted to give them always hungry and that only affects TTM!

I've currently got an Ogre and I'm thinking of swapping him for a troll once I find out what the effects of his recent serious injury are. I figured he's big and tough and thick skull will be used more often than regen so I'll go for the Ogre. For some reason though anyone who gets through his armour either stuns him or seriously injures him! He's been killed twice (apoth) and seriously injured loads of times but I've never been called upon to make a thick skull roll for him. Doubtless as soon as I get a troll he'll spend the game in the KO'd box, but I feel that's a preferable result.