Brand New Woodelves, need some ideas.

Shift81 · Post by **Shift81** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:28 pm

Just started my woodies team, they're starting their first match as we speak. Team roster is as follows:

1 Wardancer
10 LineElves
Apothecary
8 Fan Factor
1 Reroll

Currently on offence I've been considering a stacked LoS, with 7 lineelves there, two in the backfield to recieve, and a lineelf and the wardancer in the middle. The passing is still a bit risky for me, so I keep it to quick passes, get the ball to the wardancer, and let him move it down the field.

As for defense, I like the 3-7-1 defense, with 3 elves on the LoS, 7 more one row back, and one in the backfield. This gives me a lot of tackle zones on the front line, and my elves are quick enough to react to a fast passing attack.

My questions:

I need more offensive suggestions. I need more options. Also, whats the best way to build a pocket around a ballcarrier?

Secondly, are there any other defensive sets that work well for woodies? The 3-7-1 has worked well in practice games, but I don't want to be predictable.

Any ideas of tactics for my woodies would be greatly appreciated, as I'm brand new to Blood Bowl. Thanks!

Dagnar · Post by **Dagnar** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:24 pm

Is the team for a long term league?

If so I think you might have shot yourself in the foot with your rerolls, I might have been tempted to drop the FF down some.

Tactics depend on what type of teams your playing against, if your playing teams that rely on a bash factor I think you might be in a little trouble.
My experiance of playing against WE's was that they fell over very easily, and with a low AV an apoth isnt always that effective.
Best to stay at least a square away from most of the oposing team so they have to make a blitz move to hit you, which they can only do 1 per turn.

Try advancing your Wardancer into a 1 turn scorer, I'm sure that'll annoy the opposition long enough for you to be able to score with line elves.

I think all you've got to do is keep dodging and dont get bogged down in an all out slog fest (yes I know their fun, but thats not the point). The best bet is just to get your opponent so worked up because he cant bash your players that he'll start making silly mistakes for you to exploit and run away with the easy wins.

I hope this helps

Jay

Shift81 · Post by **Shift81** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 pm

Thanks Dagnar. The team is for a long term league, and yes the rerolls have been a slight problem in practice games. It was a tossup between one more and the apothecary. We'll just have to see how it works out I guess.

Currently I try and dodge everyone off the LoS, so I can only be hit with a blitz move.

What skills are needed to advance a WD to a one-turner? I assume just a movement upgrade and Sprint?

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon May 12, 2003 10:15 pm

Shift81 wrote:Thanks Dagnar. The team is for a long term league, and yes the rerolls have been a slight problem in practice games. It was a tossup between one more and the apothecary. We'll just have to see how it works out I guess.

Currently I try and dodge everyone off the LoS, so I can only be hit with a blitz move.

What skills are needed to advance a WD to a one-turner? I assume just a movement upgrade and Sprint?

no what you want is to have the rr and lose the apoth. you can buy him after the first game generally, or 2nd at latest...he will always cost only 50k. rerolls cost double after creation. ff can't be bought at all, and is vital to elf teams who need every penny they can get.

a wardancer needs 2 ma upgrades and sprint. a wood elf catcher, on the other hand, needs only 1. a 1-turn scorer would be a total waste of a wardancer anyway, they have much better and more important things to do.

Dagnar · Post by **Dagnar** » Tue May 13, 2003 12:04 pm

What else does a wardancer have to do other than score?

I dont see the need in making them bash players as against almost every other team they'll lose. Sorry if this is not what you meant - Jay

I agree with wesleytj though rerolls are kinda important and the apoth is 6/10 chance of being purchased after the first game.

I 've never played using WE, but I have played against them numerous times, from my experiance the best thing to do is develop your Wardancers into scorers, which means you dont have to buy catchers unless you really want to. Gives you free cash that can go towards Assistant Coaches, Cheerleaders, Freebooters etc.
The WE I usually play against went down the catcher route, yet they now use the wardancers for scoring rather than anything else now (hmmm maybe it was because catchers die all too easy)

If I was to use WE, I would probably go for:

2x Wardancers - 240,000
9x Linemen - 630,000
3x FF - 30,000
2x Re Rolls - 100,000

For skill advances I would give:

Wardancers - Jump up, Stand firm, Sprint, Sure feet (doubles willing)
Linemen - Blodge, Guard, Stand Firm, Side Step (and some passing skills to a few of them on doubles)

Thats just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Jay

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue May 13, 2003 1:07 pm

No Elf can get Stand Firm, as it's a strength trait. Sidestep is nearly as good in most situations.

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Tue May 13, 2003 2:36 pm

Dagnar wrote:What else does a wardancer have to do other than score?

For skill advances I would give:

Wardancers - Jump up, Stand firm, Sprint, Sure feet (doubles willing)
Linemen - Blodge, Guard, Stand Firm, Side Step (and some passing skills to a few of them on doubles)

Thats just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Jay

Let's disagree then...
I used my wardancers to jump into the cage and blitz the ball holder on defense, it is quite effective. For that strip ball is a must (my wardancers only got 1 skill and it was +1 AG and + 1 MV respectively, no complaining about that, but strip ball is next on their list)
My 2 WD scored 5 TD toghter in 7 games, my catcher 4 on his own so I would advice to buy a catcher, he quickly get blodge anyway!

On offense, the WD make the hole, rush into it to be a score threat, other players follow -including the so important catcher- and the next turn you just have to choose the better positionned player to score...
So maybe tackle could be nice...

So my take on skills is Strip Ball first, the tackle depends on your league
Sure hands is also a possibility, to pick up the ball after knocking the ball holder...

Al the Trowel · Post by **Al the Trowel** » Tue May 13, 2003 2:44 pm

Wardancer's jobs are turnover creation, ball retrieval and generally being a pain in the ass. You want to feed TDs to line elves when possible, as well as passes so that your Lelfs develop with SPPs.

Wardancers start as great players and remain pretty good, even as rookies, for the early life of the team. So this is when you want to develop the line elves.

However for Wardancer skill progression, in slot 1 Strip Ball, Pro, Tackle is a good start. This is an offensive WD used for jumping into cages a knocking the ball loose.

In slot 2 again Pro, but you can think about other more esoteric strategies Shadowing and Pass Block could be a nasty WD combo. Though Guard (on a double) and sidestep would make for an assist that you could put almost anywhere.

Lelfs development Blodgers, Guards on doubles and Tackle.

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Tue May 13, 2003 3:14 pm

Guard is a waste on a WD IMHO, give that to your lineman...
On a double give him frenzy to double your chances to strip that ball, nerves of steel to increase your chances to score with him or let have him offer the td to someone else or mighty blow.

Dagnar · Post by **Dagnar** » Tue May 13, 2003 4:21 pm

berserker wrote:Guard is a waste on a WD IMHO, give that to your lineman...
On a double give him frenzy to double your chances to strip that ball, nerves of steel to increase your chances to score with him or let have him offer the td to someone else or mighty blow.

How does frenzy increase your chances of stripping the ball?
I thought that frenzy only worked when a push back occurred, I might be wrong though.

I seem to play a different game of bloodbowl to almost anyone else, hmmmm interesting.

Jay

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue May 13, 2003 11:39 pm

ah but i think the player in question doesn't have the strip ball skill. what he meant was that if the guy carrying the ball is knocked over, he drops the ball. frenzy would give you 2 shots at that.

problem is usually the guy the wd is hitting is in a cage with a carefully orchestrated system to cut off assists...tough to make sure the 2nd frenzied hit is safe, too.

imo frenzy is, in most cases, more trouble than it's worth nowadays. i'd take MB on a wardancer for doubles every time now, and never think twice.

Al the Trowel · Post by **Al the Trowel** » Wed May 14, 2003 12:40 pm

berserker wrote:Guard is a waste on a WD IMHO, give that to your lineman...
On a double give him frenzy to double your chances to strip that ball, nerves of steel to increase your chances to score with him or let have him offer the td to someone else or mighty blow.

On reflection I agree. I was just postulating some esoteric skill progression that has some merit, though other routes have more.

Like Wes I think Frenzy is a waste of a double, too much of a risk on a strength 3 player that specialises in making 1/2 die blocks. I'm not sure I like the mighty blow idea - it just doesn't feel right for a woody team. Though there aren't that many other good doubles choices that you could take for them without hesitation.

Fronko · Post by **Fronko** » Thu May 15, 2003 9:16 am

Some points I picked up and feel the urge to reply to:

a) Frenzy on a WD seems no good to me. Use them as precision tools for ball extractions, frenzy makes them unpredictable.

b) Catchers are vitally important to wood elf success. Don't get them for your starting teams, they are way to expensive but as soon as you have the cash get them. It really helps offense, almost makes it a nobrainer and provides some nasty surprises for defense. Pass block/shdowing and block/dauntless combos spring to mind.

c) WD one-turner are a complete waste (and very hard to build, as it requires 2 MV upgrades).
You have to rely on them as defensive assets to pop the ball free => they need skills like strip ball, tackle and the like. Even if you DO get the +2MV, don't take sprint. Just max out his blitzer abilities, as you have quite a number of upgrades used already. If you really want a oneturner, use a catcher...

d) Line elf development is key to long-term strategy. While your positions will easily rack up their SPPs, due to sheer superior stats and skills, you need a solid base of linemen to kep up with the pack. So feed them SPPs early on and later always consider carefully who gets the SPPs. in a desperate situation, score with whoever has the easiest (= most failsafe) touchdown route. But if you are in comfortable lead ,or waybehind your opposition in score, take the risk and score with a line elf. Getting that TD won't make a difference in the outcome of that game, but might make a diffenrece long-term.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Thu May 15, 2003 11:18 am

Dagnar wrote:What else does a wardancer have to do other than score?

Avoid to score. He's your all-round tank and the best available player in BB. Sometimes you can't help it and will score with him, and yes, you'll take MA-upgrades, but, as said before, do not develop a Wardancer into a one-turner. How much would that suck?

I 've never played using WE, but I have played against them numerous times, from my experiance the best thing to do is develop your Wardancers into scorers, which means you dont have to buy catchers unless you really want to. Gives you free cash that can go towards Assistant Coaches, Cheerleaders, Freebooters etc.

What have you smoked?

The WE I usually play against went down the catcher route, yet they now use the wardancers for scoring rather than anything else now (hmmm maybe it was because catchers die all too easy)

Well, if you give them Pass Block, Sure Hands, Sprint and/or Sure Feet as their first upgrades they most likely will.

If I was to use WE, I would probably go for:

2x Wardancers - 240,000
9x Linemen - 630,000
3x FF - 30,000
2x Re Rolls - 100,000

FF 3?
If you were to play Woodies you'd probably be toasted instantly.

For skill advances I would give:

Wardancers - Jump up, Stand firm, Sprint, Sure feet (doubles willing)
Linemen - Blodge, Guard, Stand Firm, Side Step (and some passing skills to a few of them on doubles)

GEEZE!
What Rule-Book do you have?

Thats just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Couldn't disagree more. Poor Woodies.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Thu May 15, 2003 11:23 am

Fronko wrote:Some points I picked up and feel the urge to reply to:

a) Frenzy on a WD seems no good to me. Use them as precision tools for ball extractions, frenzy makes them unpredictable.

b) Catchers are vitally important to wood elf success. Don't get them for your starting teams, they are way to expensive but as soon as you have the cash get them. It really helps offense, almost makes it a nobrainer and provides some nasty surprises for defense. Pass block/shdowing and block/dauntless combos spring to mind.

c) WD one-turner are a complete waste (and very hard to build, as it requires 2 MV upgrades).
You have to rely on them as defensive assets to pop the ball free => they need skills like strip ball, tackle and the like. Even if you DO get the +2MV, don't take sprint. Just max out his blitzer abilities, as you have quite a number of upgrades used already. If you really want a oneturner, use a catcher...

d) Line elf development is key to long-term strategy. While your positions will easily rack up their SPPs, due to sheer superior stats and skills, you need a solid base of linemen to kep up with the pack. So feed them SPPs early on and later always consider carefully who gets the SPPs. in a desperate situation, score with whoever has the easiest (= most failsafe) touchdown route. But if you are in comfortable lead ,or waybehind your opposition in score, take the risk and score with a line elf. Getting that TD won't make a difference in the outcome of that game, but might make a diffenrece long-term.

Very good points Fronko.

With regard to the Catchers:
1st Skill: Block
2nd Skill: Side Step
---> ASAP
Traits: Dauntless or NoS, depending on league/team.