Block Skill

Got a great idea and/or proposal for BloodBowl?

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What do you think about putting the block skill into the strength skill group ?

Yeah cool idea
12
22%
Nay, that wouldn't be good for my Gutter Runners ...
38
69%
Hmm not sure, for what use is this skill ???
5
9%
 
Total votes: 55

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Relborn
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Post by Relborn »

wesleytj wrote:
Relborn wrote:A rare moment but I agree with Zombie :D

Block has actually nothing special anymore because everybody takes it. No more "wow-he-has-block" effect.
So? why is that important? Why shouldn't everybody take it?

And trust me, that effect is still there, especially for younger teams. The first game you play after your mummy has block is quite a revelation. :)
Alone the fact, that you need an additional skill to set the Blitzer appart from the average Joe-Lineman (as it was said here) shows that I am not far from the truth.

Although I agree that this is all a matter of personal taste, and I won't vote for an official rule change.

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Post by Relborn »

Mirascael wrote:
Relborn wrote:I have playtested this change for almost two years and neither were the power-teams overbalanced nor was the tackle skill more frequently taken than usual.
And I participate in a league in which that particular ruling utterly destroyed all power balances and resulted in total chaos.
The I can assure you that that has nothing to do with the rules you used. Keep in mind that some coaches are better in applying rules than others. As I have stated in my rather long post, the former German rule should bring more balance to the different rosters. (re-read my post if you do not believe me)

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

Sorry Relborn, I just don't agree.

Blitzers already are different to linemen. They are generally faster and start with block. So that means that for the same SPPs they will always be better better skilled than linemen.

On top of which linemen don't all go down the Block/Tackle route. Most teams develop a few specialists (kicker, DP the most obvious) plus some teams use them to fill out missing positions (Beastmen as runners).

On top of which why not have 1 skill that is good? It makes a huge difference to lower TR games. Lets face it its only after 10-15 games that most of your players will have 1 skill.

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Post by Relborn »

True Ian ... I wen a bit too far with my first statement. MV + and greater skill access is still an mayjor advantage of the blitzers

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Post by Mirascael »

Relborn wrote:
Mirascael wrote:
Relborn wrote:I have playtested this change for almost two years and neither were the power-teams overbalanced nor was the tackle skill more frequently taken than usual.
And I participate in a league in which that particular ruling utterly destroyed all power balances and resulted in total chaos.
The I can assure you that that has nothing to do with the rules you used. Keep in mind that some coaches are better in applying rules than others. As I have stated in my rather long post, the former German rule should bring more balance to the different rosters. (re-read my post if you do not believe me)
The I can assure you that that has everything to do with the rules we used. Keep in mind that some of your league's coaches are better in applying rules than others as well. As I have stated in my post, the former German "rule" (it was actually a typo on a chart as far as I remember) utterly destroys the balance of the different rosters. (re-read my post if you do not believe me)

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Post by Relborn »

As you think Mirascael.

I can only say that playtesting with around 24 different teams for around 2 years has showed different results. If you do not believe me I can show you the stats of our league result (btw I played Woodelves and won a season, without seeing any balance problems)

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Post by Mirascael »

Relborn wrote:As you think Mirascael.
I can only say that playtesting with around 24 different teams for around 2 years has showed different results.
As you think Relborn.
I can only say that playtesting with around 24 different teams for around 2 years has shown exactly those results.
If you do not believe me I can show you the stats of our league result (btw I played Woodelves and won a season, without seeing any balance problems)
If you do not believe me I can show you the stats of our league results(btw I play Dwarves and see tremendous balance problems).

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Post by Mirascael »

ianwilliams wrote:By changing block you are going to upset the whole balance of the teams in BB. From what I've heard of German leagues they give a lot more emphasis to power teams ( :o ).
Yeah, that seems to be true for LRB-league-house rules here as well as far as I can see. German rules changes tend to favour Dwarves significantly so that they would be the best team and are most likely to win the championships. Saw that in several leagues now around here and Dwarves are regularly winning the championships. We Germans love our Dwarves. Might have to do we the Nibelungen and with our fancy garden gnomes which we call, literally translated, gardendwarves actually.

And watch how German teams (and especially the national team) interpret soccer. Imagine we were to rewrite the rules for soccer! 8)
Casualities would count, I can assure you!

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Post by Relborn »

Mirascael wrote:
Relborn wrote:As you think Mirascael.
I can only say that playtesting with around 24 different teams for around 2 years has showed different results.
As you think Relborn.
I can only say that playtesting with around 24 different teams for around 2 years has shown exactly those results.
If you do not believe me I can show you the stats of our league result (btw I played Woodelves and won a season, without seeing any balance problems)
If you do not believe me I can show you the stats of our league results(btw I play Dwarves and see tremendous balance problems).
If you can only repeat my sentences and put them on contrary you can only show how childish you are. Discuss with arguments or SHUT UP

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

Relborn wrote:(btw I played Woodelves and won a season, without seeing any balance problems)
Yes but what about teams without AG skill access across the board? At least you can give all your line elves dodge.

How do humans fare? I expect Undead would be shafted by this rule change too.

Amazons would find it hard too. They pretty much rely on Block/Dodge across the board to compensate for low MA and Av 7.

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Post by Relborn »

ianwilliams wrote:
Relborn wrote:(btw I played Woodelves and won a season, without seeing any balance problems)
Yes but what about teams without AG skill access across the board? At least you can give all your line elves dodge.

How do humans fare? I expect Undead would be shafted by this rule change too.

Amazons would find it hard too. They pretty much rely on Block/Dodge across the board to compensate for low MA and Av 7.
I can only speak for Undead and Humans who did fairly well. Of course some of their double skill rolls went on block IIRC. Both Races were found from top till down in the rankings.

Unfortunately I cannot evaluate the situation for Amazons, as no one has played them so far in our league.

If you consider the basic rosters balanced (where Norse and dwarves have heavy access to the block skill and others don't) at start, they stay balanced through team developement as the block-skill ratio represented stays approximately the same.

For example Amazons only have their blitzers for the block skills when recruiting them and dwarves have heavy access to it. Considering that theese teams are balanced at start, they will also be so after some player advanced for an skill. So if they meet after, let's say around 15 games the balance from the start shouldn't be lost.

It's on the other way round - The current rules favor the amazons, as they can upgrade their lack in Block Skill very easily with enough SPPs and the dwarves can't bring in additional skills that help them affect the block roll.

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Post by Mirascael »

Relborn wrote:If you can only repeat my sentences and put them on contrary you can only show how childish you are. Discuss with arguments or SHUT UP
:o :o :o
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Very polite indeed, thank you for enlightening.
I think I have made very clear, that my league has made exactly the opposite experiences with that particular ruling. I am certainly not responsible if this fact seems more than you can handle without getting offensive. Sorry that I do not support your crusade.

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Post by Relborn »

sorry, true wasn't polite. I felt a bit "verarscht" bei your repetitious mails. Just for the facts ... I am - as I have told many times - not collecting any votes for any crusades. I wanted just discuss different opinions. As long as you only copy and paste my posts and put them in contrary, your points are not arguable.

I tried - with some good points AFAIS - to explain how I gathered my experiences.

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Post by Zombie »

Relborn wrote:If you can only repeat my sentences and put them on contrary you can only show how childish you are. Discuss with arguments or SHUT UP
Relborn, i'm sorry but Mirascael is right. If your league had no problem, but his league did, that makes the rule bad, period. If a rule makes some leagues completely and utterly unbalanced, it has to be removed, even if that effect wasn't seen in every other league worldwide. A parallel can be drawn here with the fouling rules. Some leagues never saw a problem with fouling, yet it was obvious for others that a problem was present, and that something needed to be done about it.

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Post by Mirascael »

Relborn wrote:I wanted just discuss different opinions. As long as you only copy and paste my posts and put them in contrary, your points are not arguable.
I just considered that the best way to demonstrate that my league has produced entirely different results. You've probably misunderstood my intentions. :smoking:

That ruling has resulted in amazons riding Unicorns and having a combined 13 MA to compensate for their pathetic weakness in such an environment. And they still can sprint. My Dwarves still own them though, of course. 8)

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