NEW ORC TEAM

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri May 16, 2003 5:33 pm

OK,

I intend to give dose Greenskinz a chance and start an Orc-Team. I know there are some decent starting line up suggestions out there (Zombie and ECBBL), but I have given up searching for them after half an hour or so.

1) best starting line up in an average environment

2) suggested starting line-up with max FF and RRs

(both should start with 11 players, I'll acquire apoth asap after 1st match, which players to acquire next with both rosters)

3) Are there significant reasons that would justify a Troll over an Ogre (would be fluffish since they'll get a middle-earthish background)?

THX in advance for all replies!

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri May 16, 2003 7:44 pm

here's how i'd start orcs

4blitzer -320
4bob -320
1 thrower -70
2 goblins - 80
2rr - 120
9ff - 90

if you want a reason to justify the troll, the main ones i know are regen and cost. trolls are cheaper, and with regen you're less likely to have to replace them. and the fluff reason you provided. that's about it really.

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Fri May 16, 2003 8:46 pm

I'd rather go like this :

3 BOB 240 K
3 Blitzers 240 K
1 Thrower 70 K
4 linemen 200 K
1 Goblin 40 K
2 RR 120 K
9 FF 90 K

You have 12 players to start, good ST and I want more linemen than Goblins when I begin. You could even drop the Gobbo and 40 K in the Treasury, making sure you can buy an apoth after first game, maybe an extra position player tight away (I'd go for a 4th blitzer).

Afterward, I would buy (in order):
-3rd RR
-Troll
-4th RR
-4th BOB

That's my 2 cents!

Fred

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri May 16, 2003 8:49 pm

orcs don't need a bench at tr100, they are all high av anyway. also as a rule, i tend to avoid line orcs as much as possible, since they're nigh worthless. plus starting with 4 bob's is key because they develop so slowly, they need all the on-field time they can get.

Goblins are really useful on a tr100 orc team, both on offense and defense. Way more so than line orcs. Ask zombie, he's posted on this subject way more than i have, and i actually agree with him for the most part in that instance.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri May 16, 2003 9:16 pm

1) and 2) same answer:

2 Throwers 140k
4 BOBs / Blitzers (pick your mix) 320k
4 Goblins 160k
1 Lineorc 50k
9 FF 90k
4 RR 240k

3) No.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri May 16, 2003 9:53 pm

Zombie wrote:1) and 2) same answer:

2 Throwers 140k
4 BOBs / Blitzers (pick your mix) 320k
4 Goblins 160k
1 Lineorc 50k
9 FF 90k
4 RR 240k

Thx, that was the list I desperately searched for. Knew you posted this one recently, couldn't find it though.

3) No.

Actually, exactly what I expected.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:22 am

Because I like Trolls better, that's why.

I start like Zombie, too but I will, usually, drop the thrower and a FF for another Blitzer/BOB. I prefer 3 Blitzers and 2 Black Orcs. That said, my Orc Throwers are my favorite players on the team so his list may be better after all.

Gertwise · Post by **Gertwise** » Sat May 17, 2003 3:51 am

My preference for league play is:

3 BoB's 240k
4 Blitzers 320k
1 Thrower 70k
2 Lineorcs 100k
1 Gobbo 40k

9FF 90k
2 RR 120k
Extra cash 20k

And that's if you prefer a gobbo to another lineorc and no apoth in your line up. I like the line orcs personally, who else are you gonna put in front of those Rat Ogre's and Mino's with a good chance of surviving? I'm not a huge fan of goblins, but they have their purpose.

After 15 games in my current league, I have maxed out the position players with a Troll except for the gobbos and have 5 RR.

If you start out with 4 goblins on your starting out team, who is gonna protect all of them?

I also prefer the troll over the ogre because for the most part he's a punching bag. IMO most people go out of their way to hit the big guys, so he usually hangs out close to the LOS. Out of all my games, I've only attempted to toss 1 gobbo (my opinion is if you're tossing gobbo's your in trouble).

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat May 17, 2003 3:53 am

Gertwise wrote:I like the line orcs personally, who else are you gonna put in front of those Rat Ogre's and Mino's with a good chance of surviving?

Huh, black orcs?

Gertwise wrote:If you start out with 4 goblins on your starting out team, who is gonna protect all of them?

You will notice that i also start with 4 rerolls. I'll lose less cash in dead gobbos than you will in double cost TRR.

Gertwise wrote:I also prefer the troll over the ogre because for the most part he's a punching bag.

And the ogre is an even better punching bag, because for teams like orcs that can consistently field 11 players, thick skull helps out more than regeneration.

Gertwise · Post by **Gertwise** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:12 am

Why would you put Black Orcs in front of a mino or rat ogre unless the black orcs had assists? And even if you did have an assist they will hit the weaker player anyway. You put the line orc there and put the strength of your black orcs on their weaker players. Good coaches aren't gonna have their Rat Ogres and Mino's out there all by their lonesome to cause turnovers.

Personally, I love paying the double for rerolls. What else is gonna bring my TR down? Orcs don't tend to lose very many players so their TR tends to get inflated unless you're firing players and hiring new ones.

I see your point on the thick skull, but if your ogre is injured, he isn't coming back for the rest of the match. If the troll is KO'd there a chance he will. The really stupid trait sucks, but in most cases, the orcs are all bunched up anyway so it's usually not a problem.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:25 am

Gertwise wrote:Why would you put Black Orcs in front of a mino or rat ogre unless the black orcs had assists? And even if you did have an assist they will hit the weaker player anyway. You put the line orc there and put the strength of your black orcs on their weaker players. Good coaches aren't gonna have their Rat Ogres and Mino's out there all by their lonesome to cause turnovers.

You use black orcs because lineorcs are too useless to even be part of the team. Don't get me wrong, they're good by any standards, but there's better selection available for orcs. Also, you'll get a better chance of a turnover by using BOBs. For wild animals, 2 BOBs will mean a one-die block for him, and 3 will mean 2 dice against (or an ogre with guard and a single BOB).

Gertwise wrote:Personally, I love paying the double for rerolls. What else is gonna bring my TR down? Orcs don't tend to lose very many players so their TR tends to get inflated unless you're firing players and hiring new ones.

How about using the money saved to freeboot star players in the playoffs? That's another thing that makes orcs too good. They have quite a selection.

Gertwise wrote:I see your point on the thick skull, but if your ogre is injured, he isn't coming back for the rest of the match. If the troll is KO'd there a chance he will.

With resilient teams like orcs, the important thing is not having the player available for the match, it's having 11 players on the field at all time. Thick skull helps your player stay on the field, regeneration doesn't. Hence thick skull is better for orcs.

Gertwise · Post by **Gertwise** » Sat May 17, 2003 5:07 am

I'm gonna have to learn how to quote, but that's another topic

If you use 2 or 3 black orcs against 1 wild animal, that means that he has 2 or 3 other players to get 2 die blocks on the rest of your team if you don't cause a turnover on the wild animal. Or worse, you have 2 or 3 guys that are faster than your team running around hither nither. IMO, you should be trying to tie up 2 or 3 of his guys on one of your black orcs so that you can do 2 die blocks to the rest of his team. If you're running around with an ogre with block and guard, chances are that his wild animal is gonna have block, a good chance for pro, and probably a leader running around somewhere.

Line orcs are great for skills like Leader, Kick, and Dirty Player. I would hate to put those on a blitzer or waste a doubles roll on a gobbo for em unless the gobbo already had block and sure hands.

I hadn't considered the star player. My league has it houseruled you can't use star players in the playoffs. Me myself, I'm not a huge fan of star players so I don't use them. Even if I did, I usually have a full roster anyway so chances are I wouldn't have a spot for them.

I understand your logic for thick skull. My opinion on that is if I played my cards right, it took 2 or 3 people to bring that big guy down, so I should have 2 or 3 people (and hopefully more because the black orcs are tying up a couple) running around hither nither and it should be about time I scored a TD unless it happened right after the kick.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat May 17, 2003 6:03 am

How about if you put your guard ogre and a BOB next to the mino, and put each of your 3 other BOBs in 2 opposing players' tackle zones each? Then you've got the best of both worlds: an opposing wild animal who has to make a two dice against block at the beginning of the turn (hard even with block and leader, and he can only use leader once per half), and all other opposing players tied up.

About giving kick, leader, dirty player, etc. to line-orcs, i agree with you. But i'd rather have to put those on a blitzer so that i can have one more catcher on my team. Besides, there's still room left for one line-orc on my team, and he makes a perfect dirty player. Leader fits perfect on black orcs because they're tough to take out, and your defensive thrower is the perfect guy to give kick.

As for thick skull, remember that orc drives typically last pretty long, so losing a player for the drive often means losing him for the entire half. And if it's the other team that has the ball, nothing is stoping them (especially now that your troll is gone) from making the drive last the entire half and make you thoroughly suffer for your one man disadvantage.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat May 17, 2003 11:48 am

Rather than go through the whole "this is the best Orc team" I'll try to explain my thought process on the team design. This is probably the way I'd approach a lot of rosters.

One of the great things about Orcs is the huge variation in starting rosters. A lot really depends on how you want the team to develop and play.

For league play as a norm for an AG3 team I'd take 3 TRR. 8/9 FF is a given. For Orcs that leaves ~630k for players.

Av9 means you don't get hurt too much. So I wouldn't bother starting with an apoth or 12th player. So 11 line orcs costs 550, leaving 180k for upgrading them. If I do take a 12th player it will be a goblin so I wont factor the cost in yet.

One thrower is a must, you have to be able to pick up the ball, 20k. 160k left.

That 160k can be spent on lots of things. Ogre +70k, Troll +50k, BOB/Blitzer +30k, Goblin -10k.

For a lot of Orc teams that means 5 Blitzers/BOBs in proportions you want normally 2-3 or 3-2. I'd probably favour 3 BOBs as they are slower to develop and form a good LOS at this stage in team development. Maybe add the 2nd thrower and lose a point of FF.

If you take a BG Ogres are better than Trolls, but 20k more. If you just want to hit, I'd take the Troll, if you want a TTM game take the Ogre.

An Ogre & Goblin sets you back 60k, leaving 100k on other players maybe take a 12th man goblin and 2 Blitzer/BOBs. I'd say blitzers in this case.

A Troll & 2 goblins (as 12th man) cost 80k, leaving another 80k for 2 Blitzers & 2nd thrower, or lose a point of FF and take a BOB too.

You can make a lot more extreme teams (4 goblins, 1 Ogre, 4 BOBs, 1 Blitzer, 3 TRR, 9 FF). Also dropping a TRR makes a huge difference as it basically gives 2 extra BOB/Blitzers.

Anyway I hope that helps.

Gertwise · Post by **Gertwise** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:38 pm

I'll agree with most of that.

I personally don't like big guys on starting teams. With MB they usually will get SPP's faster than the black orcs so I try to start out with at least 3 black orcs and if it's a really bashy league I'd go with all 4.