Push into the crowd

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:06 am

Hi, I had a rule disagreement with another coach during our last match, situation was the following:

| - - -
| -A -
|B - -
|C - -
| - - -

Player A blocks player B with assist from C, result is whatever besides both down or attacker down so B is pushed back (at least)

The square where C stands is the only eligible square on the pitch, as it is occupied I push the player (orc thrower) off the pitch (gains Niggling injury btw)

As in the rulebook:
Players may only be pushed off the field if there are no eligible empty squares on the field.

But his argument was that in the same section the LRB says :
The player must be pushed back into an empty square if possible. If all such squares are occupied by other players, then the player is pushed into an occupied square, and the player that originally occupied the square is pushed back in turn.
And that thus I'd need 2 players behind player C in order to push player B in the crowd...

Who's right?
If I was wrong we remove the niggling injury so pleeeeaaaase tell me I was right!

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:20 am

BTW i just made a simulation of that in Javabowl and the player ended in the crowd...

Looks like someone will get his niggling

TiMuN · Post by **TiMuN** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:24 am

Yes, definately, the player goes into the crowd, who promptly teach him not to stand close to the line anymore ... yes.

The same would have aplied if the situation was, A pushes B in this diagram

Code: Select all

|.
|.
|BA
|.C

So, reading the LRB, what are the spaces unocupied here?
asnwer: THE CROWD!

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:32 am

Of course we agreed on the situation you mentionned, but his point of view on the matter make other pushes into the crowd almost impossible in other situations...

But the loss of the thrower will hurt him as we play a challenge of 3 games so anything to keep the thrower in the roster is welcome I guess

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:43 am

You are right, also if you weren't right, and you would have had the situation with two players behind C, B would be pushed into C, and C would be pushed into either of these two players pushing that player back in turn...
But since you were right this doesn't matter...

R

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:46 am

Good news for me so far

Rathe · Post by **Rathe** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:50 am

The way we run it in my league is that the only way one can be pushed out of the crowd is if they hit them head on as in Timun's example. Otherwise as in your example he would have pushed the line. Probably not 100% accurate as the rules go, but it has seemed to work for us and trust me, plenty of people still get a nice pummelling from the fans.

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:04 pm

I want to play according to the LRB, not following house rules, even though I'd like mighty blow and piling on to be declared before armor roll...

But I play according the rules, it makes it easier when you play coaches different groups.

If BB is a religion, then the LRB is its bible! And I follow that bible's principles religiously

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:09 pm

I don't think MB should be called before armour. It's weak enough right now, after they changed it (from +1 to armour AND injury to +1 to armour OR injury)

R

Rathe · Post by **Rathe** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:10 pm

YEA! hehe The LRB would be the bible! Sketchy and never quite clear on what its trying to say!

The reason we chose the rule we did is because the LRB contradicted itself.

Please no one take offense to that it is meant as a joke

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:25 pm

Redfang wrote:I don't think MB should be called before armour. It's weak enough right now, after they changed it (from +1 to armour AND injury to +1 to armour OR injury)

I never played with the previous version(s) and didn't knew about it...
We even play it like this in a small league here and it is just fine IMHO.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:38 pm

We played it like you (announce MB before the roll) so far but now we'll change to the official ruling. MB is just too weak compared to piling on, claw or razor sharp fangs) and nobody picked it when you also could get Guard, Piling On or Dirty Player. With announcing, MB made nearly no impact on the AV/Injury roll as well. My fair estimation is that 95% of the casualties/KOs caused by players with MB would have caused those casualties without MB as well.

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:43 pm

I agree with you.
Actually I sent a mail to the others a few minutes ago in order to play according to the current rules too

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:11 pm

berserker wrote:Who's right?

You are. The order of precedence is

1) Empty Squares (including the ball)
2) Off the pitch
3) Occupied squares

This only applies to the 3 squares behind the defender. You can never (except with Side step, and that only works to empty squares) be pushed anywhere else.

Shadow_Dragon · Post by **Shadow_Dragon** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:53 am

I would say that player C got pushed back! As off the pitch doesn't strike me personally as an empty square! That's why you should block them head on!

I think to succefully push someone into the crowd you have to block them thusly! team A blocking Team B!

| - - -
|A - -
|B A -
|A - -
| - - -

Because the pitch would have some form of outter fence which the player would bounce off of i believe!
Though this is personal opinion and making it a bit harder to Push players of the pitch is no bad thing!

Though the way we play is even harder!

| - - -
|A A -
|B A -
|A A -
| - - -

A lot more hardcore i do believe!

Officially though i'd say player C would get pushed back and B into his place!

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Push into the crowd

Push into the crowd

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