Fully Playtested Bretonnian Team - Comments?

oblivion · Post by **oblivion** » Sat May 31, 2003 2:06 pm

not to rain on your parade but are 2 types of knight really needed? how about having the team as 0-2 knights great players 0-4 squires good players 0-12 peasents terrible players?

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 12:06 pm

Hi Oblivion,
I'm sure that the team won't stand a chance with just 0-2 knights. We've conducted massive playtest, and with 2 x 0-2 knights the team is by no means a high end team.

>are 2 types of knight really needed?
Well, if the remaining kind was pumped up to 0-4, then perhaps 2 kinds aren't needed.
But I do believe that 2 kinds of knight make for a more interesting team. I know that a team with just 1 kind of knight and 1 kind of squire could work fine, but IMO in this case more kinds = more flavour.
(I also prefer the dwarf team to have 4 kinds of dwarf, not just 1

)

Martin

oblivion · Post by **oblivion** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:50 pm

guess thats why it's called the Bretonnian team and not the knight team aye

. but i'm sure you know more about what the team needs than i do...

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:24 pm

Hey Plasmoid.

I like the looks of this second roster. I have to agree with Darkson, I like the idea of the pesents have AV 7. They are pesents, after all, and shouldn't be able to afford decent BB armour.

Chris

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:05 pm

Hi Darkson, Sushé and BlanchPrez,
I agree with peasants at AV7.

I might consider lowering reroll cost to 60K at the same time, simply because the team has lost more than it has gained in the transition to the new version.
Then again, 70K may be fine.....

Martin

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:21 pm

70K is fine. That makes you think twice about the numbers of squires and knights you buy.

Chris

littlemute · Post by **littlemute** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:14 pm

There hasn't been a good Brettonian team made yet, either the one in BB mag or some of the others floating around. I'm glad you're playtesting this, but it needs work!

The fluff in 1st edition BB about the Albion team is that the knights just go and pound people, but weren't very good BB players apart from that. The peasants, however peonish, actually could grab up the ball, learn to pass, etc.

0-2 110K Questing Knights 6339 G,ST block, multiple block, dauntless

The number is good. Get rid of multiple block, decrease movement to 5 (Human lineman are MV 6 with AV 8 ), starting them with a trait is good enough.

0-2 70K Questor Squires 6338 G,ST guard

Get rid of these all together. No Dwarf players don't start with guard, why would a human??

0-2 100K Errant Knights 7338 G,AG block, catch

MV 7 AV 8 for a catcher? Nope. Drop this guy all together.

0-2 60K Errant Squires 6338 G,PA Sure Hands

Make these 0-4.

0-12 40K Peasants 6328 G -

This is the hobgoblin position. 6337 G.

So here's the team

0-12 40k Peasants 6337 G
0-2 100k Knights 5339 Dauntless, Block S, G
0-4 60k Squires 6338 Sure Hands, G PA

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:09 am

I was really always under the impression that Humans were meant to represent pretty much all of the 'normal' human races of WHFB; the various Empire cities, Brettonia, Nippon, Cathay, and anyone else I've left out.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:33 pm

Hi Cervidal,
that was probably the intention.
Then came the official Norse and Amazon human teams - and that blurred the lines.

You're free to disagree, but I'd like to see more human teams if there is a solid idea behind the roster. On the other hand, I would not like to see more human rosters created simply for the purpose of having 1 for every nation.

Martin

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:02 pm

Well, I do understand.

Norse now are considered kinda like Chaos Marauders, so there's definitely a distinction to be made there, WHFB-wise.

Amazons are just strange. They're the only team without an army to back them up.

And, really, the current Human team fits the Brets just fine. Brettonian Men-At-Arms, aka the peons, are no worse in combat than any of the Empire regulars.

Four knights - Four Blitzers

Two Squires - Two Passers

Linemen - Perfect grunts! No one likes doing much with Human Linemen, normally.

And, personally, I don't even like using Human Catchers. At most, I'm carrying two on my roster. I run my Humans like you seem to want to run your Brets!

I do like new team ideas, but I'm not sure Brets are the way to go with how you're going. Cheap grunts and a few solid players has been done a few times, with Undead, Chaos Dwarves, and Khemri.
-----------------------------------

Here's an alternative thinking - why include peons at all? (I may mess up the Brettonian Orders here)

Linemen - Knights Errant (or maybe the squires)
Passers - Squires/Knights Errant
Catchers - Questing Knights (always looking for the ball/grail!)
Blitzers - Knights of the Realm

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:30 pm

Now, I'm just hijacking your thread and nothing else, but I liked your Dauntless/MB idea for a knight and couldn't resist posting the kind of team I'd like to playtest. I'm thinking along the lines of a Bull Centaur or Saurus kind of running game.

***The Bretonnian Team***************************************

0-4 120K Knights 6429 G, ST Multiple Block, Dauntless
0-4 70K Squires 6338 G, PA Sure Hands
0-12 30K Peasants 6327 G -

ReRolls 70K. Apothecary and Wizard as normal. No Big Guy.
***********************************************************

To contribute with at least something, I'll just give my vote for AV7 peasants. You just have to get a Monty Python feeling with a team like this...

Micke

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:18 pm

Hi Cervidal,
I wanted to create a tam where a few players did everything. I don't agree that chaos dwarfs, khemri or undead fit the bill very well.

IMO, the one team that does match that discription is the vampires. They're doing it with stats (AG4). (My) Brets are doing it with skills.
IMO, a skill and a stat based version of the same concept has been done before, and uncontroversial thing to do.

And, while you disagree, I still think that there is room for more human teams - especially one backed up by an existing miniature range (and army list).

>Norse now are considered kinda like Chaos Marauders, so there's
>definitely a distinction to be made there, WHFB-wise.
Still, they're called norse, not marauders.

>Amazons are just strange. They're the only team without an army to back
>them up.
Still, there they are.
Besides, halflings and goblins aren't backed up by army lists either. (Neither are the coming pro elfs or the ogres).

>And, really, the current Human team fits the Brets just fine. Brettonian
>Men-At-Arms, aka the peons, are no worse in combat than any of the
>Empire regulars.
But these are not man-at-arms. These are peasants.

Summing up, I guess we're seeing things very differently here,

Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:20 pm

Hi MickeX,
I based my roster on skills, because I consider both ST4 and AG4 to be in-human stats.
Looks neat though

Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:00 pm

Hi Littlemute,
thanks for your reply.
I don't know if your Bretonnian team could work, but it is certainly a whole different thing than what I was trying to do.
IMO - your final roster looks quite weak, powerwize.

Here's my take on what you said:
>The fluff in 1st edition BB about the Albion team [snip]
Albion isn't Bretonnia

>Re: Peasants. This is the hobgoblin position. 6337 G.
I want the peasants to be AG2, because I want a team where a few heroes try to do everything at once. If the peasants aren't worthless, then they'll be dodging and scoring before you know it.
We can't have that

>0-2 110K Questing Knights 6339 G,ST block, multiple block, dauntless
>Get rid of multiple block, decrease movement to 5. Starting them with a
>trait is good enough.
Not if they're supposed to make up for all those lousy peasants.

>0-2 70K Questor Squires 6338 G,ST guard
>Get rid of these all together. No Dwarf players don't start with guard, why
>would a human??
Because this humans only purpose in life is to help someone else - specifically to help their leiges with the fighting.

Are you saying that no skill that isn't on a roster currently could ever be a starting skill for a new team.
("No elf has diving catch - you can't go using diving catch now")

>0-2 100K Errant Knights 7338 G,AG block, catch
>MV 7 AV 8 for a catcher? Nope. Drop this guy all together.
He isn't a "catcher", he is a blitzer with AG-skills and catch

Not unlike elf blitzers.
He is a young reckless knight bent on scoring.
You knew what those Bretonnians say: "score on the pitch - score with the ladies"

>0-2 60K Errant Squires 6338 G,PA Sure Hands
>Make these 0-4.
I could, as replacements for the other squires.
But then I'd be told by someone else that no team 'needs' 0-4 players with sure hands. Heck, I've been told that allready [see previous post].

So, I agree that there is no decent semi-official Bretonnian team yet.
I just disagree on how to make one

Martin

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:06 pm

plasmoid wrote:Hi MickeX,
I based my roster on skills, because I consider both ST4 and AG4 to be in-human stats.
Looks neat though
Martin

Yeah, you might be right about that one. Maybe 6339 Block, MultB, Dauntless would be better in my suggestion after all.

I was thinking in the lines of Chaos Warriors, they're at least kind of human, right? Hmm. Don't know where to land on this one.

But, on the other hand, once JJ starts suggesting stuff, we'll all have too much work with convincing him it's absurdly overpowered to develop a suitable team anyway.

Micke