Piling On and it's possible changes

[Skummy]

Yeah, but I've only got 2 PO players so far, and only one of them has mighty blow.

[[France Bloodbowl] ZeBoss]

I don't have the time to read everything but I would like to tell you how we have manage piling on in our league

In approximatly 20 000 games, piling on and 5 in strength appears to be the killing combo in the game. If you combine it with mighty blow, you have approximately 50% luke of taking out the blocked player.

So in order to counter that, we have decided that :
Using piling on must be declared before the block
Player using piling on always fall down whatever the result of piling is
And
Piling on is now a trait

Now let's wait 3 month and the next 10 000 games to see what is the result of that!!!

[l_dauguet]

Skummy wrote:

I've seen two piling on mummies absolutely tear apart an Orc team

That happened to me last friday!!!!

So what to do? Should PO cause an armour roll or maybe a turn over? After all, the piling player falls down and that would prevent having more than 1 player injured per turn with that skill...

[Skummy]

As far as I can see, low agility and high armor are two combos lend themselves to getting killed by 5 st mummies with PO. I think that when the Khemri become official, we'll see a lot of unhappy Orc and Dwarf coaches. I'd love to see a straight "6" on a PO result in an ejection of the player, but most likely only the declare before will be official.

[Grumbledook]

well piling on will be changed when the khemri become official

[Skummy]

Probably just to having to declare it before, and I just don't think that this is strong enough.

[Mestari]

Now let's wait 3 month and the next 10 000 games to see what is the result of that!!!

I wish I could say that.
Generally, I have to agree with those two changes (before the roll and a trait). Now that people know what it can do they'll probably take it a lot more even it is a trait and you have to declare it before the roll. Now that everyone realises that it's just such a huge increase in the rate that the player causes injuries that it will doubtlessly be taken a lot more than it was in 3rd ed.

[Orin]

I'm fairly new, so the Piling On question didn't really come up until yesterday for me. I always play it: Declare before Armour Roll, but I played a coach who use different house rules, so we made up a compromise (hey, we're Dutch after all, the nation of Compromists )

The compromise: Make an Armour Roll, if it fails, declare using Piling On and make a new Armour Roll. This way, it isn't as powerful as it is officially, and it is still a bit of a risk to use PO.

I think the way PO is played now is to make it more attractive for players other than mummies to take PO, which is good, of course. Still, a bit of risk using a skill makes the game more exciting, I think.

[Zombie]

Still, a bit of risk using a skill makes the game more exciting, I think.

Very good point. And a seldom mentioned reason (overshadowed by other, more mathematical reasons) why piling on declared prior is a better rule.

[Thadrin]

Screw Mummies. Try it on a Mino with RSC. Oh look, he's prone all the time so WA is no hinderance whatsoever. Meanwhile, one of his teammates is off down the other side with the ball. Choose: Die horribly or lose huge.

PO should give a reroll on the armour, or give a fixed +3 to the armour so it isn't nerfed for the Norse. It should return to before the roll if the latter.

My 0.02

[Zombie]

You'll never see PO RSC minotaurs or rat ogres if PO has to be declared before, since you'll never be able to use MB on the armour roll (unless you forfeit the use of PO, in which case it was pointless to give it to your player), and RSC then only becomes +1 on injury (compared to using MB, which you'd use otherwise), which is hardly worth the double, considering all the other good things you could get instead.

Wow, this sentence was way too long, but still makes sense!

[Grumbledook]

Indeed zombie has some good points I think we should at least try using it the old way and if its still overpowered then try something else

[noodle]

I don't see a problem with PO as long as you declare it BEFORE you make the roll....

makes more sense too

[Boss]

Just thinking out loud regarding an alternative way of ruling on this - it could be a fine idea to make it the same as fouling, meaning that there's a 1-in-6 chance of a turnover. It's risky - but very useful, just like fouling (except it's worth star player points). It would also increase the options of the opposing team to fight back (foul against the guy who just threw himself down on your fragile wardancer or whatever. Under these conditions I'd probably consider it fair that the decision is made after the diceroll.

Seems pretty balanced off the top of my head ... and it's something that has to be considered carefully whether it's worth the risk or not, like fouling.

[Kruppe]

Somebody mentions that you can decide to use the Piling on skill AFTER the armour roll. They support that with the following quote from LRB p.15

"and you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice"

The question is WHAT DICE?

Common sense tells me that this is the Block dice.

This goes hand in hand with the skill description:

"The player may use this skill after he has made a block"

So after he has knocked down the opponent he has a choice whether to use Piling On or not. Only then does the result of the block and the use of skills result in an armour roll with the appropriate modifiers.

On top of that good old commen sense will tell you that otherwise Piling On is way to overpowered.