Dirty Player...get more fouling in game but at cost

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:10 pm

Here's a new suggestion for toning down dirty player but increasing fouling. Dirty player still gets +2 to AV roll but no longer +2 to injury. But since dirty player is good at what he can ignore the eye. he can continue to foul at only being caught on a 6.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:44 pm

Might be interesting... I'm all for more fouling!

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:41 pm

Or: before rolling any dice the dirty player has to determine he is going for a blatant foul (+2 armour or injury, always caught on a 4+) or a sneaky foul (no modifiers, always caught on a 6+)

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:44 pm

without the +2 on injury-roll the DP becomes pointless...
fouling is for tactically taking out key players. And without any chance for a injury-mod, it´s quite pointless. So you increase fouling, but the mindless kind.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:47 pm

Hi Circular_Logic,
that's not totally true.
IMO, there are 2 kinds of fouling:
Fouling to maim and tactical fouling. Sometimes you need to make a tactical foul to prevent an opposing player from getting up and walzing into your endzone.
Martin

Pardus · Post by **Pardus** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:52 am

yeah i thought of making dirty player a -1 on the IGMEOY roll and secret weapon penalty roll (with one of the purchasable secret weapons house rules)

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:37 pm

Plasmoid:
in this situation I even risk being sent off and use the most expandable player. So the proposed DP-change would have little effect. I like the current system petty much... it´s only broken with "get the ref", which should be a 4+argue-the-call IMO.
Tactical fouling is mainly to keep a specific player off the pitch for at least the drive. With the changed dirty player, blind fouling is encouraged, as the chances being sent off are equally in every situation and they are lower than getting the opponent off the pitch.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:53 pm

Hi Circ,
I like the current rules too, but then again - we employ 2 house rules:
GTR is a 4+ argue in my league, and DP is +2/+1.
We simply got fed up with the easy access to +2 injury rolls.
For us, this system works like a charm

Cheers
Martin

mrinprophet · Post by **mrinprophet** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:37 pm

I think that the best way to increase fouling is to allow soft fouls. That is, the worst case is BH. Its a psychological fix. I think the reason people don't foul as much is that if you kill a good player via a foul your opponent is irritated and things may degenerate. If you kill a good player via a block, it was just the dice.

Given that the LRB has greatly increased the value of league play and maintaining a team for an extended period, this is more of an issue. I see previous versions (3rd and before) as more beer and pretzels, with the latter editions being more strategic. Obviously, there is elements of both in each condition, just being tilted more in one direction. Fouling is more beer and pretzels (note not all B&P).

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:28 pm

even without the injury mod u still get player off the pitch on 8+ and he won't be doing anything next turn anyway. My main gripe is the +2 to injury. I think +2/+1 would work great too. and if your dirty player only get's caught on a 6 if you don't send him off this turn you can easily foul again and get him off next turn.

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:02 pm

But the +2-mod is the thing that makes DP worth takin. It´s the only way to greatly improve the chance to get one player off the pitch for teams without mutations.
If you wanna tone down DP, then add the following rule:
If a SI or a RIP is caused by a foul, the fouling players is automatically sent off by the referee.
That way you reduce the impact of DPs to one lasting injury per DP.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:41 pm

i don't agree. a foul is usually a free injury roll. Most coaches set it up so that they will break the armor when they foul. No other option except pushing out of bounds is like this.
even without the injury modifiers the player will not be doing anything next turn. And if you allow more fouling odds are after 2-3 fouls he will be off the pitch. so you can still get si's and deaths without worrying about ejections.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:16 pm

And I don't agree either.
Giving any lineman access to +2 injury rolls is a very bad thing.
I know that it has "always" been this way, but we've never liked it.

Seeing a 1-skill lineman shovelling out star players is just too much for me. But the +1 is still a good bonus. DP's are still very popular in my league.
Martin

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:31 pm

i'd also like to see spp's come back for fouling too! that way people won't get all whiny and mad when u foul their players....now u got a reason...spp's. I'm not even a big fouler. But with dp in it's current condition you can't do this because everylineman would be taking it to speed them to their 2nd skill.

VoidSeer · Post by **VoidSeer** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:31 pm

Personnaly, I like the rules the way they are.
I against the proposal of the OP. No injury bonus just makes DP useless and no 4+ IGMEOY roll will just turn the game into a fouling party.
Anyone playing against AV7 team would just foul every turn.