Nerfing orcs. How?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:12 am

plasmoid wrote:A nerf is supposed to take something away and weaken the team. Not take something away and then give something back that almost counters the nerf or maybe even makes it a tad better.

Just brainstorming. The seeds don't all have to pan out. And there's nothing saying that a particular set of mods can't be combined with something else that comes along.

I think adding 10k to the price of a BOB is just crushing at 1M, and I also think that a BOB isn't worth 90k in its wildest dreams (they're at best a mediocre deal at 80k, TBH). So give 'em something worthless (yes, Thick Skull is worthless if it's only found on a 0-4 AV9 ST4 piece; it's good on Skels 'cause it comes up a lot, and good on Dwarfs 'cause it's universal) and pretend it's worth 10k.

You could also just flat-out bump Blitzers to 90k and handle it that way.

I still think 0-2 Blitzers is the way to nerf the team. Taking the Troll away means all of a sudden Orcs aren't really a bash team, and that makes no sense to me. Whatever you do to Orcs, they should be the archetype of heavy and mean, 'cause that's what an Orc is.

I'd also be cool with taking away the Orc Thrower, or Thrower and Goblin, and forcing the team to go bash all the way. Or splitting it up into Gorker teams and Morker teams. Gorkers would have no Throwers or Goblins, and Morkers would have 0-2 Blitzers, or maybe even 0-2 Blitzers and 0-2 BOBs, but MA6 Throwers.

Another option would be bumping the TRR price to 70k. With 90k Blitzers, that's probably overkill, but with 90k TS BOBs (above), it might be a nice balance.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:49 am

Thick skulls main value would be to stop me from fouling black orcs.... which is something I enjoy doing and dont want to have to stop doing

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:19 pm

What makes Orcs unique is that they are the only team that can field an entire line-up with AV 9 and still win.

I dunno, I reckon a dwarf team with just Longbeards and Blitzers would still be pretty effective, not optimal, but still a Tier 1.5 team at least.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:55 pm

plasmoid wrote: In sociology there are 2 kinds of data qauntitative (sp?) and qualitative.
We've got lots of quantitative data...

But qualitative data also has some merit - with the risk of being anecdotal.
*snip*
Might be a hint that it's more than anectdotal...

anecdotal, historical, qualitative... I am not really distingusihing amongst them.

I stand by the original point- if you are using anecdotal (qualitative) data as your impetus for change, you should be working extra hard to identify the qualities which have an effect on your system!

Othrwise, you are likely to change something and have an undesired effect, or no effect at all.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:10 pm

SillySod wrote:Thick skulls main value would be to stop me from fouling black orcs.... which is something I enjoy doing and dont want to have to stop doing

I didn't think of that.

How in heck do you foul a BOB, anyway? It strikes me as nigh-impossible to get enough assists to bring him below effective AV7, unless you use DP, in which case Thick Skull doesn't make him unfoulable.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:40 am

mattgslater wrote:
SillySod wrote:Thick skulls main value would be to stop me from fouling black orcs.... which is something I enjoy doing and dont want to have to stop doing
I didn't think of that.

How in heck do you foul a BOB, anyway? It strikes me as nigh-impossible to get enough assists to bring him below effective AV7, unless you use DP, in which case Thick Skull doesn't make him unfoulable.

Three assists are easy

My main fouling teams are St3 oriented so I'll explain what they do. Generally I'll only block a black orc if its been left vulnerable. I consider a black orc to be vulnerable if all the following conditions are met:
- I have a player already standing next to them or can afford to waste the blitz
- there is space to move in two assists, preferably in a line (see the diagrams below)
- I can afford to move up the two assists for the block and can spare a player to foul with

Code: Select all

...     ...      O..
.O. --> %X. (or) ...
xxX     xx.      xxX

The idea is that if I knock the black orc down then he falls straight into a pre-built foul but if everything goes wrong and I only generate a push then I'm not giving away a free block. Obviously this varies a bit according to the situation.

Before you point out that orc players dont leave their black orcs vulnerable.... they do. Within the hurly burly of regular play black orcs do become exposed every now and again, especially if you are employing quite a wide formation. Most orc players are happy for their black orcs to end up man-marking and sooner or later those pushes are going to come up.

Finally (and moving back to the original point) if I do have DP then thick skull is going to seriously discourage me from fouling those black orcs. In that situation thick skull is removing 28% of my pitch removing injury rolls which is a massive decrease in effectiveness

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:14 pm

No linemen
Goblins 0-16.

Sure you can have 11 positionals, but don't lose any!

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:49 pm

bouf wrote:No linemen
Goblins 0-16.

Sure you can have 11 positionals, but don't lose any!

I like it!

Koigokoro · Post by **Koigokoro** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:33 am

SillySod wrote:
bouf wrote:No linemen
Goblins 0-16.

Sure you can have 11 positionals, but don't lose any!
I like it!

But would this be a boost(in the statistics) as all the inexperienced coached would have to play without turnover-machine-trolls ja casualties-waiting-to-happen-goblins

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:04 pm

No linemen
Goblins 0-16.

Ha - that's absolutely inspired!