Khemri and LRB 6

[wizmerlin]

Thanks mattgslater,

That was a good answer.

[Ulfast]

So new house rules or going back to old "khemri" team rules is some options but if you want to play with the current rules (as I know we will do in our league and will propably not accept any changes) what is you to do?

I still see a team that with just a few skill can get much better in handling the ball and with some luck get those important skills like block, stat increase and more. And in a long league you will get some. But if it´s true that a khemri team can be good in the first couple of games because of our tomb guardians, can´t we then get those SPP easier and follow the other teams when they increase in power? Of course we know that some teams like elves have it much easier then us but we also know a couple of teams that is worse (like ogres, hafling etc). So what do you think?

[plasmoid]

I think the old team was pure cheese.
Clearing the pitch with a TV100 team is just stupid.

The new team is tricky. Low tier 1. Other teams are down there. They are by no means uniquely unplayable! Pick up the ball. Don't be cavalier about that part - have half your team in the backfield! It's not like you're going anywhere, and you just might blow the pick-up.
Once you have the ball, slowly move your cage forward, using your ST5 players as spearheads. If you're in a hurry. Move a lighter cage as fast as you can, then let the mummies catch up next turn.

But basically - don't leave just one guy to pick up the ball. Have half a team down there.

Cheers
Martin

Oh, and Matt, kind of sounds like you haven't played ogres. The combination of TZs that disappear (bonehead) and TZs that aren't really there (titchy) makes for one heck of a headache. Khemri don't have that.

[plasmoid]

Hi Wizmerlin,

I'm prone to believe that Khemri-team is defenately not tier 1-team.

Fair enough. I'm prone to believe that the old team was a stinky chunk of cheese.

...try to find a competitive reason (and a way) to play the team in our ultra-competitive league.

They're not a strong choice in a hugely competitive league. Like humans: Not bad, but not as good as the top 10. If you're looking for stompy power caging, you should go orcs or dwarfs.

Cheers
Martin

Oh yeah - for all their flaws, they are tied for strongest team in the game (with ogres).

[Carnis]

Hi Wizmerlin,

I'm prone to believe that Khemri-team is defenately not tier 1-team.

Fair enough. I'm prone to believe that the old team was a stinky chunk of cheese.

...try to find a competitive reason (and a way) to play the team in our ultra-competitive league.

They're not a strong choice in a hugely competitive league. Like humans: Not bad, but not as good as the top 10. If you're looking for stompy power caging, you should go orcs or dwarfs.

Cheers
Martin

Oh yeah - for all their flaws, they are tied for strongest team in the game (with ogres).

Khemri is definedly tier1. Especially if you can use the inducement system to bring in setekh or ramtut, you've got a real powerhouse potentially.

I don't get the tied in STR though, khem is much stronger . Str of ogres = 5x6 + 1x5 = 35. Khem is 5x4 + 3x7 = 41. Orcs can only get 5x1+4x4+6x3 = 39.

The old team barely won games in FUMBBL though, except in good hands - so it wasn't as cheesy as welfs - just poor game design resulting in boring games for both sides.. .

[Baduk]

I played with 3 teams on fumbbl, as a newb.
Skaven, I did pretty well with them (= won more than I lost).
Halflings, I found out why they're (one of the worst) team(s), especially for a newb.
Khemri, I didn't do too good but enjoyed playing them very much. I'm not sure why I lost so much more than with skaven, I didn't try to play them like skaven (I know someone would say that). Maybe only better than average skilled coaches wanted to play against them. I definately should have put more players in the backfield! Haven't played Khemri with lrb5 though.

[Ulfast]

Good tip about puting more in the back then other teams usually do. Because in the teams I have played I usually just put one or two back there but as you said, perhaps better to put 4 or 5 in the back and slowly get up. this is great tips for any khemri player. Together with soem good skills and advice which to take we can slowly turn this thread into a tactica for khemri

Another question, what is the thing we most need to look up for in other teams, is i the faster teams, the stronger teams or some speciall skills that hurt us the most?

[Carnis]

Good tip about puting more in the back then other teams usually do. Because in the teams I have played I usually just put one or two back there but as you said, perhaps better to put 4 or 5 in the back and slowly get up. this is great tips for any khemri player. Together with soem good skills and advice which to take we can slowly turn this thread into a tactica for khemri

Another question, what is the thing we most need to look up for in other teams, is i the faster teams, the stronger teams or some speciall skills that hurt us the most?

Blodge kills your play basicly, and +AG elves/gutters who happen to have high MA to go with it. It will take a long time to develop Block/Tackle TGs, infact you might never make it. Another issue is Blodge/SS/Shadowing or Blodge/SS/DT which tag to your ballcarrier like the plague. You aren't likely to make it if they can tag you in the backfield..

Another thing to fear is MB/PO blitzers vs your AV7 skellies, but you do not need to fear them as much as the high MA teams.

[mattgslater]

Oh, and Matt, kind of sounds like you haven't played ogres. The combination of TZs that disappear (bonehead) and TZs that aren't really there (titchy) makes for one heck of a headache. Khemri don't have that.

Kind of sounds like you misunderstood me, Martin. I didn't have to start comparing the unique stuff about Ogres to make my point, as it's a net minus. Khemri just aren't nearly that bad. I think the conversation is converging on where I too sit on Khemri, though.

[DoubleSkulls]

There's no way to balance 4x ST5 on a ST3 team. It can't be done.

I don't know about that, but my feeling is that the four S5 and no AG3 constraints on the team actually break the boundaries of what the game can support. The current team works in that its reasonably balanced for low end of tier 1, but it doesn't feel right.

[mattgslater]

Has it ever felt right? Because "balance" means so many things in this context (it's not a checkbook; you have to balance it against 23 other teams some with multiple competitive builds), anything large you do will have big repercussions. Anything you do to counterbalance it will also have big repercussions. You aren't smart enough to predict all those repercussions, because nobody is. But if through trial and error you get a handle on the big ones and end up with something kind of mushy that isn't broken, is at least a little fluffy, and has a little potential left, then you have to call that a success.

[mrmojoz]

But if through trial and error you get a handle on the big ones and end up with something kind of mushy that isn't broken, is at least a little fluffy, and has a little potential left, then you have to call that a success.

This is how I describe my cats. They are sucessful when you apply your criteria to them.

[GalakStarscraper]

There's no way to balance 4x ST5 on a ST3 team. It can't be done.

Really disagree with that statement. I find no issues with the balance of the current Khemri team ... so I definitely believe we did what you said could not be done.

Galak

[Borthcollective]

There is a guy in our group that has played them the last 2 times we've had a league once under LRB 4 and once under LRB 5 and in small leagues they were tough. They would work the 1st half on crippling your team, and then get a couple of TD's in the second half.

[mattgslater]

There's no way to balance 4x ST5 on a ST3 team. It can't be done.

Really disagree with that statement. I find no issues with the balance of the current Khemri team ... so I definitely believe we did what you said could not be done.

Galak

Learn to identify a compliment. Your big breakthrough was in defining balance as a range with a cap. It took WotC a heck of a long time to figure this out with Magic: you set your upper benchmark, and if anything goes past it, you nerf it. And anything that sucks you buff until it feels about right, up to that upper benchmark. Khemri, as hard as everybody tried to balance them, just wouldn't stay on the mark, so they were then weakened, and apparently not so badly as to put them out of range. They're simply not competitive with the top teams on an equal level, except in the sense that the variance between coaches' winning ability exceeds the variance between teams' balance within the upper tier.

You hit on the balance, but you did it by increasing the size of the bat. Instead of saying, "they have to be as good as Undead," you said "they have to be better than the joke teams." My point still applies. If you tried to fine-tune them into top-notch competitiveness, you'd have a very hard time. In the Barbarian example I used, the fine folks at TSR, unable to create a lower tier to balance against in their ostensibly noncompetitive game, had to take the class out entirely and introduce a line of "kits" to provide a new, more balanced framework for fluffy mechanics. That was okay, because it sold a lot of books, but from a game-design perspective it's an admission of failure. By comparison, y'all made lemonade.

I was about to apologize for digressing, but then I realized I'm still on topic.