A few thoughts on Khemri

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by SunDevil »

Report!

- I kick and he gets a blitz! The ball was landing right behind my line on the near side and he chose to blitz my Tomb Guardian farthest from the ball. Knocked him down and fouled him but neither broke armor. So a 5-ST BoB, a Blitzer and the Goblin were way out of the play.

- I gathered up the ball and on turn 2 a TG charted his Troll! Regen failed so one Guard gone! Right after that I blitzed his niggled 5ST BoB, down, failed armor but, because his Goblin was too far away, Piled On with abandon - 9 +MiB break, 7...niggle to a KO! I had to remind him, he was surprised I knew his team so well! Studying paid off!

- Made sure to cloud screen and not cage because my opponent DID buy a Wizard, giving me a free Wizard and I merc-ed a Skeleton.

- More Khemri grinding, killed a BoB - apothed to BH.

- Ran a Thro-Ra to the endzone and stalled, perfectly safe...except from the wizard. Electricity was in the air but felt it worth it to try and draw out the Bolt. I was up 4 or 5 players by then and my other Thro-Ra, the 3AG one, was safely trailing the play.

- Sure enough, Turn 6 he Bolts the Thro-Ra, KOing him, but the Orcs cannot get to the ball. It was around this time I was able to really get physical, corraling the remaining BoBs with all my Guarding TGs. Ball had bounced into the endzone!

- Turn 8, I pick it up easily (for a Thro-Ra!) and go up 1-0! His Turn 8 is uneventful as Thick SKull prevents 2 KOs and his one casualty Regenerated!

Second Half

- His Goblin had been ejected (as had my favorite fouler, Skeleton #13 Old Scratch) and with his Troll gone it was all Orcs on the Pitch. The KOed niggled 5ST BoB failed his KO roll at Turn 8 but made his halftime roll. My opponent let out a "Thank God." I thought, "Don't you mean, Thank Nuffle?" :)

- Kick Off result was PERFECT D! And perfect it was as instead of three Skeletons to hit, the Orcs suddenly found all the TGs up on the line and both Blitz-Ras looking for the sack! The kick (thanks to my Kick Skeleton!) was way back in the bottom right backfield!

- My opponent, great coach that he is, threw two dice uphill, got the push, then a one die series on the line. He managed to knock over 2 TGs but that was it. Then, as Smeborg predicted, his Frenzy got him into trouble as he actually had a two die, push/push, then a one die and it was a skull. His reroll was gone so down he went with the ball still on the ground!

- I hit everybody, got some more players removed, but could not get to the ball, though I had both Blitz-Ras and my star Thro-Ra trying to box in the Thrower.

- MY FIRST MISTAKE!!! I should have Bolted him at the end of that turn (or beginning) but didn't. He then grabbed the ball and threw downfield! The receiver caught it but had already moved so had to sit. This was at about midpitch. Frustrated with my mistake (shame on you CONTROL Khemri coach!) I immediately Bolted the Blitzer - and charted him! I was able to get three tacklezones on the ball, smash his BoBs and LineOrcs some more and generally recover to the Khemri's satisfaction.

- He based the ball but then was forced into two die uphill blocks in the TG 'corral'. Nothing worked, skulls were rolled and we defensively charted another Orc. I also knocked out the niggled Blitzer when I broke armor naturally and rolled a 6 + MiB + niggle = KO!

- After that, it was grind time. I ended up scoring on Turn 8 with 6 casualties (1 death) to his two, who both Regenerated. There was a tense moment late when he slop-blocked my ONE Blocking TG and charted him - rolling a 2 and a 4 for Decay. He would miss my semi-final game! Then the Regen roll came down the dice tower...FOUR! Whew!

I gained Stand Firm on a TG - 20+ skill rolls over 4 seasons with this team on current and long gone TGs -and I've rolled ONE double. :P Now I face a Chaos Dwarf team for a trip to the championship! I'll post teams here when the games are processed as I'll need your help once again!

THANK YOU to everyone who posted ideas - your advice was invaluable in helping my beloved Khemri vanquish their age-old foes and move into the semi-finals!

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by Smeborg »

Great effort, Chance, well done. Doesn't sound like your opponent made best use of his Wizard, I wouldn't have taken one in his position.

I presume you have a rather massive ST advantage against the CDs.

All the best.

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by mattgslater »

Gratz!

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by swilhelm73 »

he was surprised I knew his team so well! Studying paid off!

This is so darn critical.

I don't know how many games I've won because I studied my opponent before playing them. Knowing their roster, but more importantly their likely D and O lineups lets you devise your game strategy (another thing not enough coaches do IMO) so much more effectively.

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by SunDevil »

First off, again, thank you all for the advice, the comments, and the well-wishing. The community for this game is so tremendous, it is one reason I have put many of my old games and hobbies up on eBay to concentrate solely on Blood Bowl (well, and Masters of the Universe, my other nerd passion!) so please know it is appreciated!

Also if anyone of you (or the mods?) think I am monopolizing this thread or posting in the wrong forum, PLEASE let me know and I will stop/move immediately!

That said - Semi-final Match-up!

My team, with only one new skill. Not doubles darn it! Though I checked and it's only been 21 skill rolls on TGs for this team with one doubles! :P My FF did not go up.

SUN CITY DEVILS (Season 4) 210 TV - 3 RRs

1. Basker the Black - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Guard, Stand Firm (new)
2. Ebru Zon - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Block, Guard
3. Auba de Beng - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Guard, Grab
4. Jualis Eb - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Guard, Break Tackle
5. Ordog Sol - Blitz-Ra - MiB, Guard, Tackle, Pile On, Dauntless (League cas leader with 17 in 10 reg season games! 2 vs the Orcs!)
6. Beelzebub Xmex - Blitz-Ra - MiB, Guard, Tackle, Pile On (Killed an Orc last game!)
7. Asmo Deus - Thro-Ra - Block, Leader, +AG, Fend, Tackle (25 career TDs!)
8. Dielli Dia Bolos - Thro-Ra - Block, Kick-Off Return, Dump Off (Survived a Lightning Bolt!
9. Old Bendy - Skeleton - +ST, Block, Fend (-2MV so his MV is less than his ST! 8 career cas!)
10. Son of Boy - Skeleton - Block, Kick (niggle) (Kick skill was BIG.)
11. Old Clootson - Skeleton - Block
12. Young Gooseberry - Skeleton - Dirty Player
13. Old Scratch - Skeleton - Dirty Player, Block (voted League's Most Dangerous Boot...by me. :D )
14. Young Fiddler - Skeleton - rookie

I really wish I had taken BT or StF instead of Grab on Auba de Beng but I'm hoping it's formation busting ability will finally come in handy against the Chaos Dwarves!

My esteemed opponent (probably the second best coach in these playoffs after the Orc coach! Sheesh, what a draw!)

BRONCS BRAHMAS (Season 4) 195 TV - 4 RRs

1. Big Bucks - Bull Centaur - Block, +MA, +MA, Break Tackle (Star of the team and my main concern!)
2. Bones - Bull Centaur - Block, Break Tackle, Tackle
3. Promiseland - Chaos Dwarf - Dodge, Disturbing Presence
4. "61" - Chaos Dwarf - rookie (This rookie is actually MISSING but I know he'll just cut/rebuy another rookie CD.)
5. Baby Face - Chaos Dwarf - GUARD, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow (-1 AV)
6. Dillinger - Chaos Dwarf - Mighty Blow, Grab
7. Bodacious - Chaos Dwarf - Claw, Mighty Blow, Dauntless (My OTHER main concern!) (niggle)
8. Coda Blue - Chaos Dwarf - GUARD, Stand Firm (niggle x2)
9. Come Apart - Hobgoblin - Sure Hands, Block, Kick-Off Return, Fend
10. Skoal Sippin' Velvet - Hobgoblin - Wrestle, Fend
11. Descent II - Hobgoblin - rookie
12. Tipperary II - Hobgoblin - Block, Strip Ball
13. High Tide II - Hobgoblin - rookie
14. Grated Coconut II - Hobgoblin - rookie

His TV of 195 has been adjusted (it's 'technically' 188) to include my opponent cutting/rebuying #4 since he was just a rookie anyway. Though why he hasn't already I don't know.

So after he rebuys that CD, he'll have exactly 150k, which I assume will be a Wizard. That's okay, I've had plenty of practice against Wizards and that keeps him from getting an extra Apoth and a babe (which I think he will consider). I am happy with my, as Smeborg so accurately predicted, "massive ST advantage" as he has but two Guarders and only one Claw CD. He had another but I placed a bounty on him and he was killed (and eaten?) by Orcs in Week 10. Money talks! :)

He is the higher seed (#2 to my #3, same 7-3 reg season record but beat me head-to-head) so will get +1 to kick/receive. If I kick, I'll try to pin it (despite his KoR) and play forward, trying to outmuscle him with my 11 to his 8 or 9 minus whoever goes back for the ball. The Bulls are the X-factor, as they always are with CDs, especially his 11-moving nightmare Big Bucks. That guy alone beat me when we played in the regular season (helped by a big mistake on my part) and I vow not to let it happen again. I'll hit them when I can but want to be sure I don't let the Bulls get behind me, especially with the ball. I am also considering just sitting on the ball if I can turn him over and run out the half, so I don't try to force a turnover score and have that mutant Bull chase me down. If I can score 100% safely after a sack, I'll do it of course, but safety first!

On offense, cloud screen protection for the ball (so I can get Bolted but not Fireballed and still have the ball in the middle of the Khemri mob) until after the wizard is gone, then strict cage. Keep bodies on the Claw CD and keep him on his short hairy arse, if not off the pitch altogether Also, as you have noticed, my old friend the Niggling Injury is back in large amounts! I'll target them with Mighty Blow first, Pile On second and Khemri Stomping Boots (patent pending) third. The AV broken CD will get a lot of attention as well. :) Nuffle must be smiling down on me because the three injured CDs are both his Guarders and the Claw/MiB/Dauntless guy!

I'm hoping my 4 TGs, Blitz-Ra #6 and the Skeletons, including 4ST, 3MV Old Bendy, can handle the CDs and Bulls while my wrecking ball Ordog Sol, Blitz-Ra #5, can go Hob hunting. I'm trying to decide what he was before he was Khemri - Human Blitzer? Beastman? Not sure, still working on it. :) I'm convinced both my Thro-Ras were Dark Elf Runners in their former lives!

Sorry I don't get to ask for inducement advice this time as I am the overdog (I will not be using petty cash to buy a Wizard!) but any advice on actual game strategy would be welcome. Also, I have zero experience playing as CDS, but have played against them quite a bit in this league. In fact, I've played this same coach/team 4 times with 2 wins, a loss and a draw. So if any of you CD coaches want to chime in and give me some insight from that side of the ball, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks in advance and let's get the Sun City Devils into Critical Bowl XIII!!!

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by Hitonagashi »

swilhelm73 wrote:he was surprised I knew his team so well! Studying paid off!

This is so darn critical.

I don't know how many games I've won because I studied my opponent before playing them. Knowing their roster, but more importantly their likely D and O lineups lets you devise your game strategy (another thing not enough coaches do IMO) so much more effectively.
Big +1 to this.

It's the primary reason on FUMBBL that I never ready my team till I know my opponent in a Major game(and quite frequently in a league). It reminds me to study their team and at least come up with a coherent game plan before pressing ready(I'm aware this is not CRP). It also means that if that game plan doesn't require some of my resources, and I have spare cash (usually the case), then I can drop them and re-buy them when I need the,.

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by mattgslater »

I don't know what I can tell you that you don't already know. Break Tackle is 1/turn, and if he has to dodge through a zone, even BT makes his odds only 4/9.

Get after his Guards. If you can put #11 on Bodacious or Promiseland, so much the better. Of course, boot these guys if they go down. But concentrate your fire on the Guards and Bulls (plus opportunity pops on Hobs to get man-up), and if a Guard goes down use his Stand Firm against him: if you get a pow, be ready to stick the boot in. He has to keep those guys in the action.

You will win this game if you can turn it into a midfield scrimmage, so long as you don't overcommit. There is no reason you should have to overcommit: nine of his starting eleven are ST3 with two Guards between them.

What kind of defense does he run? Can you give me a sample diagram to test against? His team seems ripe for Grab-chain tricks, and 3d is easy for you.

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What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by Smeborg »

I have played plenty with CDs, they were my first league team. If I were playing with this CD team, I would pick up the ball with the Usain Bolt Bull Centaur and scoot it in, using the Sure Hands Hobgoblin only for 1 and 2 turn scoring attempts. Don't forget that Usain Bolt brings a modest 1-turn score capability. I would be confident of scoring on my receive, and would not try to stall at all unless the Khemri gave a kind offer to let me do so.

On defense, I would not expect to be able to win a long drive with the Khemri having a massive 7 point aggregate ST advantage (+11 if you add Guards). Instead I would use the Bulls aggressively to attack the ball, not hesitating to take a 5+ dodge sack chance, even without RR. I would also try to force the Khemri to score, confident in the CD's ability to score in 2 or 3 turns (the Wizard would help greatly with this). Thus in this match, the CDs will play more like an AG team (believe it or not).

So my suggestions would be (a) expect your opponent to score at least once, (b) don't give your opponent a sack chance, even at bad odds, (c) if you have to, make sure all critical cage corners are Guarded (so that you are ST5 to the Bulls' ST4), (d) defend the 1-turner with due care, and (e) please consider inducing a Wizard after all (he is your best chance of bringing down Usain Bolt and preventing the CD's from scoring). Perhaps a tougher match for the Khemri than you might think - if you don't take a Wizard, you will probably only get one stalling drive. The CDs will aim to go 2-0 up (receive, score quickly, turn over the Khemri with the Wizard, then shut them out for 2-0 at half time). Watch the Bulls, even when prone, they can do lots of things, including chasing down a BS pass (what you call a punt). They work best as a pair.

[Edit: Keep an eye on the D-Pres CD too. He has the potential to make ball movement (hand-off, pass) rather tricky in a scramble. And I think there will be at least one good period of scramble in this match.]

The reason your opponent may not have repurchased his missing CD might be that he is considering inducing a Merc with a skill (e.g. Guard or Dauntless).

Great thread, Chance, the reason you are getting feedback is because you are feeding lots of critical information and thinking to us.

All the best.

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by SunDevil »

Paul and Matt - Thank you both! It's like having you at the games!
mattgslater wrote:What kind of defense does he run? Can you give me a sample diagram to test against? His team seems ripe for Grab-chain tricks, and 3d is easy for you.
I can tell you he prefers the power sweep. He will clump up on one side and try to power through, using the Bulls to clear holes and escort the Hob carrier. It is a pretty simple gameplan. I've had success against him by herding his CDs, keeping the Bulls on the ground and removing Hobs.

The good news here is that if I get a quick casualty or even a couple of KOs, it really gets in his head. He is so used to NOT losing CDs that getting even one off the pitch throws him off mentally. I mean to take advantage of this, press my ST advantage and get the stretcher out. I will, of course, be very mindful of where the Bulls are, especially Big Bucks.

Smeborg - You really think I should buy a Wizard? I see your point about him trying to score quickly, turn me over with the Wizard and then score again. I have to think I could remove some players in a short time, which would make it harder for him to get into my Khemri cloud after Wizarding. I plan on keeping my entire team within 4 or 5 of the ball, and leaving a space all around the carrier so I can be Bolted but not Fireballed, thus the Wizard cannot be used to knock a serious hole in my protection. I know he can get a Wizard, I'm not sure I can give him a Wizard AND an Apoth and a Babe to blunt my casualty count.

Do you think he would use inducements for a skilled CD? I really think he will buy a new one (no Loner) and induce a Wizard.

Great tips from a CD coach! I remember when we played and those Bulls seemed t get in places that no 2-AG player should ever go and I will be keenly aware of that potential in this game thanks to your advice!

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

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SunDevil wrote:Smeborg - You really think I should buy a Wizard? I see your point about him trying to score quickly, turn me over with the Wizard and then score again. I have to think I could remove some players in a short time, which would make it harder for him to get into my Khemri cloud after Wizarding. I plan on keeping my entire team within 4 or 5 of the ball, and leaving a space all around the carrier so I can be Bolted but not Fireballed, thus the Wizard cannot be used to knock a serious hole in my protection. I know he can get a Wizard, I'm not sure I can give him a Wizard AND an Apoth and a Babe to blunt my casualty count.
Well, I was imagining the way I would play the CDs in this match. If you know, however, that your opponent will use the Hobgoblin with Sure Hands to run the ball, then you probably don't need a Wizard, you have the advantage. It's a long and difficult road to the end zone for a Hobgoblin compared to a Bull. As long as you are alert to the possibility of a hand-off or pass, the Hobgoblin is unlikely to make it through all your ST. But a Wizard still seems good insurance to me. It will seriously mess with your opponent's head if he knows that his precious first drive with ball in hand is not safe (I would expect to score on my first receive with this CD team, not allowing for a Wizard). And in your place I wouldn't worry too much about numbers in future drives, you have the wherewithal to simply reduce numbers within each drive. But you have the advantage of having played this team before - that's the best guide to whether you will need a Wizard.

All the best.

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

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mattgslater wrote:What kind of defense does he run?
SunDevil wrote:I can tell you he prefers the power sweep. He will clump up on one side and try to power through, using the Bulls to clear holes and escort the Hob carrier. It is a pretty simple gameplan. I've had success against him by herding his CDs, keeping the Bulls on the ground and removing Hobs.
That's good to know about his offense. That means you want to draw him to a side and lock him out of a redirect, then rely on your superior ST to hold him down.

But it's not what I asked.

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

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mattgslater wrote:
mattgslater wrote:What kind of defense does he run?
SunDevil wrote:I can tell you he prefers the power sweep. He will clump up on one side and try to power through, using the Bulls to clear holes and escort the Hob carrier. It is a pretty simple gameplan. I've had success against him by herding his CDs, keeping the Bulls on the ground and removing Hobs.
That's good to know about his offense. That means you want to draw him to a side and lock him out of a redirect, then rely on your superior ST to hold him down.

But it's not what I asked.
Sorry! :oops: I totally missed that. He will play a standard bread-and-butter defense - spreading his CDs out front with a Bull lurking in each widezone looking for a sack. The Hobs stay behind the line until it's time to lend an assist or put the boot to someone. The problem he has had against me in the past is that the CDs get pinned down - roughly two CDs to every TG - and then I just start sweeping them. Knockdown/push one turn, move forward, he stands or can't get two dice, next turn I push him again. It has always happened that I remove one or two of them this way (not a guarantee of course) and then he gets massively frustrated when there are no 2DBs anywhere. He tends to Blitz with his Bulls and constantly attack the cage. Anticipating this, I will return Blitz the Bull with a MiB + PO Blitz-Ra, followed by a Dirty Player boot. I will even move the bulk of my team back a space or two to ensure at least a stun...and a foul next turn while the team moves forward and away. :)

When he kicks, especially to start of the game, he wavers between puting CDs on the line or Hobs. If it is 3 Hobs, I will hopefully remove 2 or all 3, hitting 2 with the MiB+PO Blitz-Ras and 3DBing the other with my Block/MiB TG. If it is CDs...well, same thing but will have a harder time removing them. The question then is does he put his wounded CDs up there or his healthy ones? I can't see him putting the wounded ones up there - easier to remove AND the best skills as in Guard x2 and one Claw. (Paul, who would you put on the line with his team?)

So I'm probably looking at Hobs x3 or healthy CDs x3, or maybe rookie CD and 2 Hobs. I will probably only blitz into his backfield if I get ball in hand or some other amazing result, allowing me to move enough support up there to prevent an easy return Blitz of that extended player. Once again, I REALLY hope to receive first - though, like I said, he gets the +1 to kick/receive to start this game as the higher seed.

Hope this is more helpful, Matt. :)

Paul - I do think he will try to run with the SH Hob as he has in the past. He hates trying for the 4+ to give a Bull the ball unless it is desperation time. Worst case scenario he scores quickly and still has the Wizard to try to turn me over. I play ultra-conservative to hurt his team as much as possible. If that goes well, I'll have an easy score, which he will use the Wizard to prevent. Like I did against the Orcs, I'll make sure the Bolt is his only option and have my other Thro-Ra in position to scoop up the ball. If I am not removing players, I'll just stall out the half, hurting as many of his players as I can. He kicks ot me in the second half and still has his Wizard but I'll have the whole half and, fingers crossed, a considerable player advantage by then. Grind his team to dust, score (hopefully) and take it into OT against a broken and undermanned team.

Would like to win in regulation but I'll have to think long term (3 halves, 24 turns) if neccessary.

Like you so expertly pointed out, I CANNOT afford to go down 2-0. I am happy spending extended periods of time raining down a storm of 2- and 3DBs in my favor, mashing the Hobs and, through sheer number of blocks/MiB/PO, pushing injuries over the CDs armor.

In our game last season, I charted one of his Bulls early (he actually threw a 1DB and skulled out) and my opponent all but gave up. I am confident that once I remove a CD or 2 or maybe a Bull, my opponent, great a coach as he is, will help beat himself.

I just have to be sure I don't beat myself. :)

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

Post by mattgslater »

Zig? If he puts Dwarfs on the line, use your Grab to chain a TG into one of his midfielders (preferably off of pushes to the Dodge guy, if he's dumb enough to put him on LOS). But not having any frenzy, don't get greedy. For you, it's going to be all about creating a scrum that absorbs one bull while you lock the other out in space, and getting your smacks in against his niggling and AV<9 guys: Grab chains help with both. Obv, going after the faster bull is the better answer.

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What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

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SunDevil wrote:Report!

- I kick and he gets a blitz! The ball was landing right behind my line on the near side and he chose to blitz my Tomb Guardian farthest from the ball. Knocked him down and fouled him but neither broke armor. So a 5-ST BoB, a Blitzer and the Goblin were way out of the play.
Great report SunDevil, but did the Orcs foul on a Blitz kick off event?

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Re: A few thoughts on Khemri

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spubbbba wrote:
SunDevil wrote:Report!

- I kick and he gets a blitz! The ball was landing right behind my line on the near side and he chose to blitz my Tomb Guardian farthest from the ball. Knocked him down and fouled him but neither broke armor. So a 5-ST BoB, a Blitzer and the Goblin were way out of the play.
Great report SunDevil, but did the Orcs foul on a Blitz kick off event?
They did indeed! Did I mess up a rule in there somewhere?
mattgslater wrote:Zig? If he puts Dwarfs on the line, use your Grab to chain a TG into one of his midfielders (preferably off of pushes to the Dodge guy, if he's dumb enough to put him on LOS). But not having any frenzy, don't get greedy. For you, it's going to be all about creating a scrum that absorbs one bull while you lock the other out in space, and getting your smacks in against his niggling and AV<9 guys: Grab chains help with both. Obv, going after the faster bull is the better answer.
This is very clever! He will most likely have more CDs just two spots back, seemingly safe from widezone Blitzes. I will look for this opportunity but, as you wisely advise, not get greedy.

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This is Chance from THREE DIE BLOCK - Your Blood Bowl Podcast! Stay off the sidelines!
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED MAKE THE SIMYIN A REALITY!!!
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